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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DH and his friend's widow (long sorry)

22 replies

Loriens · 01/09/2013 00:33

Bear with me; this is going to be long.

A few months ago my husband's friend (A) was diagnosed with cancer. They have been friends since they began school, grew up together, were flatmates on and off over the years and were Best Man for each other at their respective weddings. To use the cliché they were closer than brothers.

I met my DH when I was in my mid-teens, went out with him briefly when I was 18 and finally 'got together' properly when I was in my late twenties. We remained friends throughout that time so obviously I knew his friend very well, his wife less so. The past few years, as happens, we tended to see less of them. They went out a lot socially, we don't but we still saw them every month or so.

When A was diagnosed we knew from the beginning the prognosis wasn't good but the speed in which the cancer took hold was unbelievable. He was incredible though, going to work up until six weeks before the end, still going out socially etc. DH began popping round on his way home from work a few times a week. As A began to deteriorate his wife began to rely on H more.

I know I am unreasonable before anyone tells me, but I began (for the first time in my married life) to be a bit jealous. A's wife began calling DH at work, asking him to come out of work for a chat, going for a pint when A was asleep. At this point we still thought A would be with us for a lot longer and while I didn't begrudge DH the time with A, I did begin to resent the time he was spending with his wife. I was having significant health problems myself at the time (although nothing on A's scale) and one day when I was extremely ill (I got hospitalised later that night) A's wife called to see if DH could pop round. A was having bad day and sleeping a lot and A's wife kept asking DH to stay and keep her company and then when his parent?s nipped round she wanted DH to go out for a drink.

Obviously, once I recovered from my own hospital trip I talked to DH and explained that while I loved his caring nature and urge to look after everyone I was starting to feel like second best. He was shocked that I felt like that and very upset. He just wanted to help and didn't want to say no to anything. I did feel bad about my irrational thoughts and I tried to be as supportive as I could to A, DH and A's wife, his parents and the rest of the family.

The last few weeks DH went every day and I am glad he did get to spend the time with A, I went most days and we did what we could, which was very little. We spent most of the last day with him and DH stayed with him to the end. This is the first person that DH has lost despite being in his late forties.

It has been a couple of months now, the pain I feel in the loss is still strong so I dread to think of the pain DH and of course, A's wife and family etc. are feeling. We are still supporting her as best we can, the 'social' group of friends they had seem to have disappeared since the funeral. I have sorted out the legal/financial side while DH the more practical (repainting the room A died in etc.).

But now and again the irrational jealous part of me kicks in, usually when she text or calls him when he is at work or invites him round after he finishes his shift. Don't get me wrong, DH shares all this with me, calls me to ask if I want to go with him but I still feel irritated- I don't call DH much at work unless it's an emergency. I feel worst when I pop around and she never mentions that she has phoned DH in the middle of the night (he works shifts).

Please tell me this all will pass, my own irritations, the nightly calls and invites, the feeling that there are now three of us in my marriage. Call me selfish and unkind - I know I am, I suppose it's just the feeling that nothing will ever be the same again.

OP posts:
skyeskyeskye · 01/09/2013 00:43

I think that you are right to be a bit concerned about this. You need to discuss it with your H. He needs to support her without her getting emotionally dependent on him.

No doubt the wife is lonely and talking to her H's best friend probably helps her, but to be totally cynical about it, relationships can and do happen in that situation .

Your H needs to draw a line somewhere that he doesn't cross. Maybe you should go round there with him .

You're not a bad person for feeling the way that you do, but your H should be able to put your mind at rest.

I rarely texted my XH at work as he drives all day but when he was supporting his friends wife over the loss if their baby (5 years earlier) they were texting each other hundreds of times a day.

If you are aware if the situation, you can keep an eye on it.

I feel horrible posting all this, no doubt she is just grieving and lonely but she does need to make her way in life without the constant support of your H

Darkesteyes · 01/09/2013 00:44

You are not being irrational . The fact that she doesnt mention shes called your H in the night would be a red flag to me.
Shes also still grieving and not thinking straight and being close to your H is a way of being close to her late H

Elizabeth Taylor and Eddie Fisher immediately sprung into my mind as i read your post.

It is a difficult situation.

NatashaBee · 01/09/2013 00:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ravenAK · 01/09/2013 00:58

Where are her friends in all this? You & she obviously aren't great mates outside of the friendship between your respective dhs.

I was widowed young & can honestly say the people I wanted to lean on for support were my own friends, not my late dh's.

She sounds terribly lonely.

I don't have any suggestions really, & I don't think yabu, but she doesn't seem to have much in the way of people to help her wholeheartedly, poor woman.

Loriens · 01/09/2013 01:07

Thank you for posting Darkest and Skye. It has actually felt quite cathartic typing it all out.

I do believe it is only grief and she isn't thinking straight but I have also seen this situation happen in real life although fortunately the BF was a single man. Probably why I feel like I do.

My H and I have talked at length and while he still wants to support in any way he can, he assures me he would never do anything to put our marriage in jeopardy. To be honest he finds it quite difficult and easier when I am there. I think I am just tired and coming to terms with my own health issues and this is just another thing to think about.

Thank you for not making me feel it is 'just' me.

OP posts:
Darkesteyes · 01/09/2013 01:11

Thats an excellent point raven. Unfortunately when illness comes in the window a lot of friends fly out the door DH had a heart attack in 2006 and his best mate has come round once to see him once in beteen then and now at xmas 2008 (Dhs ha left him with partial disability and being a carer a lot of ppl stopped asking me to socialize after a while apart from one close friend and another friend but the second friend likes a piss up and i dont....anyway a lot of people cant or dont want to deal with illness and you can end up on your own.
However i still think OP needs to keep an eye on it.

Darkesteyes · 01/09/2013 01:14

Its not just you Loriens Glad you and yr h have talked about it Are you going to go over with him next time.
Still think its off that she never told you she called him in the middle of the night.
Did your Dh tell you this.

Loriens · 01/09/2013 01:22

Natasha and Raven, thank you for your comments.

She has family and friends close by. I actually thought she had a lot of friends but they tended to be people she/they went out for drinks with. They invite her out for drinks but don't seem to be around much other than that.

raven I am sorry you were widowed young, my own mother was and she also relied on her own friends and sisters. While I am friendly and we do get on, you are absolutely right that we are not' mates'.

I do feel desperately sorry for her and want to help her as much as I can. I do see her most days now but I do feel a poor substitute for a friend particularly as I don't want 'share' my H.

Thanks

OP posts:
Loriens · 01/09/2013 01:30

I keep cross posting!!

I do go with H or on my own. I have been off for a few weeks so have had time to do all the phone calls and paperwork that come with bereavement. She also pops to my house occasionally. I think it is probably loneliness

H has always shown me messages or talked about the calls He comes home from work upset again after she has phoned or texted. He is still dealing with his own grief too.

I know it's early days...

OP posts:
BrianTheMole · 01/09/2013 01:30

Some friends tend to fuck off out the door when stuff like this happens. Apart from very very close friends, if this lady has any. Keep an eye on the situation for sure, but don't ask your husband to just dump her. She is grieving.

HeartsTrumpDiamonds · 01/09/2013 01:44

I feel for you, I feel for her, I feel for your DH. Awful situation.

Could you become better friends with her? Ring her more, see her more just the two of you, so that she is less dependent on your DH? Just grasping at ideas here.

This is what I'm thinking.... What is she getting from the closeness with your DH?

  • conversations / remembering A with someone who was close to him
  • companionship, not feeling so alone
  • emotional support
  • practical support - DIY etc
  • maybe some element of strange "hysterical bonding" going on (sorry, can't think of any better way to describe it)

For some reason she seems to be looking to your DH for all of this and not leaning on her own friends & family. I'm wondering if she really truly doesn't have much other support. Maybe if you could help provide some of what she needs at this moment you could take some of the pressure and demands off of DH. He must be feeling very responsible for her wellbeing and like there is a huge weight on his shoulders.

Good luck OP. I can tell you are a generous and kind person the way you are so worried about being "irrational and jealous".

Darkesteyes · 01/09/2013 01:45

Sorry to hear that you were widowed young raven I missed that part of your post earlier.

Monty27 · 01/09/2013 01:51

You and your dh sound lovely. It's a very difficult situation. If you're feeling second placed though, dh needs to take a small step back from A's widow.

Is there anyone else she can lean on?

Sorry for your loss. Flowers

Loriens · 01/09/2013 01:57

Thank you for your kind comments

Brian- I wouldn't dream of asking my H to dump her, I know how hard and lonely it is when people back away when you lose someone. I think I did expect her own friends/ family to do more.

Hearts, thank you for your suggestions. I think it is a mixture of all of the above, I am trying to be a friend.

H is at work at moment and just called to say she is having a bad night. I think I am going to pop round.

If I can help I will and if I can't then at least she will be aware that H shares everything with me.

Once again all thank you

OP posts:
BrianTheMole · 01/09/2013 02:04

Take care op. Its a sad situation for sure Thanks

WaitingForMe · 01/09/2013 04:24

I think he needs to slowly detach.

We lost my dad. My stepdad was his best friend. They both missed him and bonded over that at first.

Spickle · 01/09/2013 09:00

I also was widowed young. I got a lot of support from my late DH's brother which, I guess, helped me deal with the grieving because I knew that my BIL was grieving too. I did/do have lots of friends and they gave me tremendous support but they couldn't empathise with me because they hadn't been in my shoes. That was nearly 5 years ago now and thanks to my BIL, I have established a new life (got a new DP!), with new interests. I still see my friends regularly and don't speak to my BIL anywhere near as often as I did in the beginning. I will be forever grateful to my BIL for the help to get through this (and hopefully I helped him too!), but there was never any "feelings" between us and I would never have crossed that line (BIL was divorced so would have been available - but just so wrong).

I think this lady is grieving and is clutching onto your DH for support - she knows he is also grieving for his friend and therefore can empathise with her loss. Hopefully in time, their conversations and contact will reduce as the wife gradually picks up the pieces and begins her new life. Perhaps some counselling and/or a bereavement group may help. I joined a bereavement group and it was actually very comforting to be welcomed by so many other people who knew exactly what I was going through. Unfortunately friends and relatives who have not experienced losing a partner often can't give the kind of support that is needed.

RhondaJean · 01/09/2013 09:24

I think you need to put out markers of boundaries for her.

So if she calls him at work and has a bad night, he says oh I'm so sorry, I will ask lories to pop round once she's up.

It's the situation where she is very vulnerable and might end up overly attached to your dh, I'm not suggesting she's chasing him but a gentle reminder he is married and where appropriate boundaries should lie might help?

AlisonClare · 01/09/2013 09:40

Widowed young too. Not an experience I would wish on anyone. You lose the person you could talk to, who knew you and understood you. It's more than just grieving - you lose your anchor in the world. It's really difficult to behave normally. I needed to be around people, but to not have to 'be' anything to them. I didn't have that and was all over the place. The person that looked after me was an old (female)friend of my partners, an older woman. She just kept phoning, to check I was alright, to keep me on track, to have a conversation. To listen to what my plans for the next 24 hours were, how the children were. She was an absolute godsend - and still is.

Maybe pre-empt the texts/phone calls and take control by phoning/texting first and then being clear about 'we'll phone you again tomorrow evening and you can tell us how your day has been', gradually extending the time between calls/contact.

Optimist1 · 01/09/2013 09:44

Sad situation all round, Loriens. Your husband seems to be very sensible - he's telling you exactly what's going on an not hiding any of Mrs A's demands/requests. It sounds like a good idea that you step in and share some of the supporting with him, like popping round to her as you mention in your most recent post.

Are you friends with any of her friends? Perhaps you could invite one or two of them, and her, to yours for a lunch you could nudge them into being more supportive to her?

camaleon · 01/09/2013 10:06

Loriens,
Sorry for your loss. I am in a very similar situation right now, but the widow lives in another country. Many are asking if she is not 'too close' to my husband. I am not feeling that way, which is the main difference with you.

I was probably not as close to them as you are to this family. You must be in lots of pains and in need of comfort too, but you feel you can't demand it because your pain is 'less'.

I believe Spickle is explaining what is happening and there are no red flags on your husband's side from what you write. Only a deep sense of duty towards his friend.

I lost my father young. It will get better.

Loriens · 01/09/2013 20:40

Many thanks for all your kind comments and advice.

I am also sorry for your losses and letting me see the different perspectives.

Thank you

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