At a loss - more lies, what do I do?

[Cherubell]

Hi ladies, I'm a first time poster, long time lurker.
I'm completely at a loss as what to do and could really use some objective advice.

Been with my DF for 3 years, he moved in this year. I have a DS 7 who has severe disabilities. Currently living in rented adapted accomodation hence the reason DF moved in with us. He sold his house, we were looking to buy a suitable property with his equity as a deposit- eventually.

So as not to drip feed, he lied to me at Christmas. It wasn't a cataclysmic lie but enough to make me question trust. We discussed at length, I have trust issues as it is and we worked through it. A few months later he moved in and proposed, we are TTC (couldn't wait much longer to try due to health issues on my part) and everything was going fantastically well. He had promised never to lie again, I trusted this and was happy and content thinking we were building a future as a family.

Before he moved in we had many discussions regarding money. He used to become uncomfortable during such discussions, I thought it was because its a sensitive topic, he was used to being a single man able to spend as he wished and he has never been great with money but said that all credit cards were now cleared and it was a clean slate. I would be in charge of making a budget, bill money would be paid into my account as all direct debits already came out of there (tenancy is in my name) and I've always been excellent at managing money. As a child we were very poor, I had to learn early and as a mother of a disabled child I had to ensure everything was covered. We opened a joint account for food etc, it all seemed to be working smoothly and organised.

Last week I found some bank statements. Thinking they were household (same bank) I moved them for filing. It was only when I looked in the envelopes I realised they were for a credit card I didn't know existed. It turns out, rather than clearing the credit card he already had (with sale money from the house) he had balance transferred £4000 onto another card with a different bank. This was all done 2 months before he moved in. I opened all statements I could find and his credit card I knew about had almost £1000 on it that I also thought was clear. This £5000 has now been paid from the house fund (or so I'm told) but what gets me is during confrontation, he says that if I'd never found out, he would never have told me, goodness knows how he would have explained £5k going amiss!? He said he has been worrying about it for months, that he was ashamed of his debt as its basically been frittered away on crap. Clothes, gadgets, car stuff... Basically living beyond his means before we moved in together.

Things are now very strained at home. I feel I can't trust him. I never used to worry about money, I didn't have much but it was all accounted for. He has lied to me on many occasions over a number of months. He has moved in, proposed, been TTC, all in a web of deceit. I feel like its all been tainted. We now have a dwindling deposit fund, not that I'm in ANY rush to move now I can't trust him financially. What if its the mortgage next time? I understand he lied because I'm insecure about CC debt, I hate it. He's offered to hand over his cards, I didn't want that. He's a grown man with a SS and fiancée, he should be able to look after his own finances! I don't want to have to mother him, I'm already a heavily relied upon mother and carer.

Above all else, it's the constant lying that has disappointed me the most. If he can lie about that, what else can he lie about. For months on end...after he has promised never to lie again after the last time he shook my foundations of trust.

I'm sorry this is long, I feel like I'm at a junction in my life and I don't know where to turn. Cut and run? Or try and keep our little blossoming family together? How? Please help!

Anyone?

It seems to me like honesty and financial security/transparency are both really important to you (for very good reason).

I am shit with financial stuff.

But he has lied to you knowing how important these things are to you.

That seems fairly major to me.

Only you can assess the value he brings to your relationship and work out if you can live with not knowing if you are being lied to in the future.

I am not sure that I could.

First things first, whatever you end up doing, it would be wise to stop TTC immediately.

I'd end it now personally, while you don't have to worry about mortgages and child custody. Better that than finding out somewhere down the line that he is incapable of changing who he is, which most people are.

I've named changed as the prevailing attitude on her is LTB and I'm not sure if I'm ready for that yet.
I'm in a similar situation to you except for we're a few more lies down the line. OH tells me he lies as a first instinct to avoid any "aggro" without any thought to the damage and hurt he causes with that lie.
Some of the lying has been over pretty major things (think losing thousands of pounds gambling), while some of it has been over petty nonsense but the damaging impact of each lie on our relationship has been the same.
Each time he lies it hurts me so much and I always wish I'd left him the last time he did it to save me this new batch of pain.
Like you apart from this things are actually good and looking like they might get a lot better so I can't understand why he does this.
Where we are now is that I've told him that if there are any more lies that there will be no more talking, no more therapy, no more chances, that its all over.
Its fighting talk now but I've lost so much self respect over this.
I really can't offer you any advice just hand holding until someone wiser comes along.

Riots speaks a lot of sense, we have a two year old and were TTC when the last shitstorm broke. On of the reasons I find it so hard to leave is that, day to day, our family life is lovely and it would be hard to be the one who made the first move towards breaking that up.

What was the first lie about?

To be honest, that clinches it for me one way or the other. If it's something mild then I'm afraid I can understand the c/c one.

You sound quite judgemental and whatever you said about c/c debt obviously made him feel ashamed enough that he couldn't open up to you. Yes, it was wrong that he lied, but you've also got to look at what it is about your attitude or your relationship that made him feel he couldn't tell you the truth, imo.

If he'd been running up debts whilst with you, that's another thing, but this debt was before you got together and for some reason he didn't feel like you would be understanding about it.

That's exactly how I feel. Our day to day life is lovely, he is fantastic with my DS who absolutely adores him, I would also be ending DS's family life. I've been advised by my dr to TTC so soon despite us not having a big enough property because it may soon be too late (not age related though) he knows all this, still managed to lie to my face over and over again and had no intention of sitting me down and explaining any of it to me.

I'm so utterly pissed off at him. I don't even have a word for it. I thought we had financial transparency. I thought everything was wonderful. I feel like a f***g idiot.

It will happen again wont it.

Littlebunnyfriend, we were together. He hasn't moved in yet. I know that's a menial detail really and yes, I can see where you are coming from. I despise lying. I've had bad experiences.

Something came out over Christmas that is very personal to my family. I don't want to go into detail. I am a very private person (despite me currently typing all this on a forum, I'm desperate and I'd rather not tell RL friends) he immediately called one of his family members and told them all about it. I could have handled that only, when I asked him if he had told them, he said no. Absolutely not. Maybe if you knew the topic of that private family matter it may change your POV but as far as I was concerned, him lying to me for days and days (until he realised I wouldn't let it drop) was a step too far for me. As I said, I hate lies. I don't feel the need to lie to him.

It may sound like I'm completely over reacting but now my trust has gone, it all feels so hurtful to me.

Seperately, I'm worried he won't be able to change his ways with money.

It's thrown a lot of issues up for me.

*hadn't. Not hasn't.

May I add, he said he didn't tell me the truth about the first lie because he knew I'd be angry. We talked, we agreed that whatever the truth is, even if the other person will get upset, is always better than a lie. So yes, I may have got annoyed at the CC situation but I wouldn't have been reevaluating everything like I am now. I thought we were on the same page.

It will, but it'll be about something else that you didn't see coming and the one after that will be about something that seems so fantastical to you now that you can't even contemplate it.
Its all about the lying and why he lies. If he'll talk about it and his answer gives you hope that you can carry on it might be worth trying.

Littlebunny, your post sounds a lot like victim blaming.

I think that this is a Big Thing for you. And as such, it is going to cause problems in your relationship. You may not want to leave him just yet, but how many more lies are you going to be able to cope with finding out about before you DO decide to pull the plug?

I couldn't handle DH telling people stuff I had specifically asked him not to, and then lying about having told them - it would be a serious nail in the coffin - although not necessarily the last one. One of my exes was a pathological liar - would lie reflexively, you couldn't believe a word that came out of his mouth, and worse, he would lie when there was no point in lying! I couldn't live with that permanently, it wore me out for the 6m we were together.

I'm not sure that's helping you much but I DO think you need to work out what your line in the sand is likely to be...

Victim blaming - bullshit. Not everything is black and white. Not everything is bad guy vs good guy.

Yes, getting into debt was wrong and lying about it was wrong, but that doesn't mean that there are not things to examine in the relationship that may be contributing to the partner's inability to tell the truth.

If a woman came on here who had hidden a c/c debt from her judgemental husband, you'd all be supporting her. I know cross-thread references are frowned on but perhaps look not too far from the top of this section of the forum to find a thread where a woman has done very similar, and look at the support she is receiving.

But of course, the man is usually wrong in these threads!

OP, I think that if you can work on a more open and communicative relationship where your partner does not feel under attack, then he is unlikely to lie again in the future.

That's the thing about your partner lying to you, it pulls the rug out from under your feet.
Its taken DH a long time to realise that I can't take each episode of lying in isolation and that it all adds to the cumulative effect. Lying about why there is a masses of junk hidden in the downstairs loo when we're meant to be on a health kick would be fine (if a bit ludicrous) on its own but added to lying about gambling and credit cards it blows up into a right old ding dong and for ages he couldn't see why.

So much of my energy is taken up with keeping DS alive. He cannot do anything for himself, is reliant on me for everything. My point is, DF is fully aware of this. Sees me at my tiredest, at the end of my tether with 'the system', in pain from lifting&handling, yet has still put me in this position. Home and family life was our sanctuary. Now I feel awkward in my own home when he's here. I don't even know how to talk about it.

Why do people feel the need to lie as a reflex? It's not like I'm scary. I don't raise my voice, I don't lose my temper, I have all the patience in the world. That's what puzzles me and makes me more inclined to think that he will lie again because he'd rather that than tell me the truth. Just wish I knew why. And how he ever thought if not notice a £5000 shortfall in our deposit fund.

Littlebunnyfriend - I'm the least judgemental person you could imagine. I wouldn't have blamed him for the credit card debt. I'd have figured out a budget to get rid of it! I'm proactive! He chose to lie, he had ample opportunity to come clean. Allow it to be factored into our family finances. He was sneaky and balance transferred to make it LOOK like he had paid it off.

This is absolutely not my fault. He should know by now he could come to me with any problem, anybody could, and I wouldn't judge, I would help.

Littlebunny, I take your point but so you not think the onus should be on the OP's DH to communicate to her why he feels the need to lie, rather than the OP trying to analyse what it is in her behaviour that makes him lie.
I also think that the OP has said that her DF feels ashamed of what he's done, there's no suggestion that she's been attacking him, although to be fair we don't have his point of view on it.

Honestly, I wouldn't have attacked! I asked him how much he had on cards 3 months before he moved in so we could get it straight. He said £800 which he would clear on house sale. He could have said £10k, it was going to be cleared with house sale, it was his house, he could have cleared whatever he wanted! Instead he lied. And snuck around trying to hide it. All I've ever said is I don't like credit card debt, I didn't make a song and dance about it, I knew it could be cleared before he moved in and we moved on!

OP, its not your fault, people lie and a good bit of the time its self serving.

Cherubell - I have personal experience of debt with my XH. After he moved in with me, I transferred money into a 0% card in my name to save him the interest he was paying, as he couldnt get another card in his own name. He told me he had destroyed the card. He didnt, and behind my back, he ran up another £2K in debt.

When I found the statements, I was very upset and felt very let down by him. He couldnt understand it, until he talked to his friend, who made him see how I was feeling. He was living with me, rent free, and trying to sort himself out financially and he let me down big time.

We talked about it, he was worried he would lose me over it. It took me a long time to trust him again, but I di, we cleared the debt and he didnt do it again.

But as soon as he left me, he ran up thousands of pounds in debt, around £20K in a matter of months, just buying whatever he wanted, new clothes, ipad, new furniture, so he didnt actually learn anything in the long term and he is now up to his eyes in debt.

You need to talk to your DF, and he needs to rebuild your trust. I think he should get rid of his cards, if he cant control his spending. But if you cant trust him, then in the long term, it will never work.

I think if you want to you can work through this. What you would firstly need to do is get him to be totally honest with you about what debt he has - there may be more you don't know about. If he can get the debt paid off through his equity from his property or maybe enter a debt management programme then he would be starting with a "cleanish" slate. It may be that you would need to be in charge of all household bills, and even his wages in a way (he sounds like he would be up for that a bit from your first post) just to keep him/you as a couple on the straight and narrow. You may not want to do this but it could be one way of working through this tough time.

I have some debt and my DP doesn't (the exact opposite actually!) and I feel ashamed but most of this has been ran up before we got together and what has since been accrued is because I have had crazy expenses regarding my rental property which I will hopefully recoup soon. It means I feel terrible though and haven't told him everything yet but he does know that I am skint for the time being.

I wouldn't pursue TTC or having a mortgage for a while until he has proven himself reliable and honest but I don't think money has to always be a deal breaker. It may be for you though, in which case best to let him know so he can build his life elsewhere.

It sounds like there is some reason why he lies rather than tell the truth. Ask him what happened at home when he was a kid if he owned up to something. If he's grown up thinking it is better to lie than come clean then it will be really hard for him to get over that.

You have to decide how much you and he are committed to getting over this, and talk through ways to resolve it. Telling him you won't get mad obviously doesn't work, so ask him how he thinks he can tell you stuff that might upset you without him trying to lie.

He sounds like he wants to be honest with you, he's offered you his cards. Unless he is such a game player that he would then go out and do the same, but your comments don't read like that.

First of all, I'm sorry to hear you're going through this.

Secondly, I don't think you have a 'thing' about money as some posters are suggesting. You believed you were on the same page as this man in terms of working towards a shared future together and he has destroyed that trust/dream with his lies. I think financial security is important to most people - and it's logical to seek a partner who has similar views.

I would second those posters saying don't continue TTC with this man. You have enough on your plate, and from your DC's needs as described here, I'm surmising that you're not able to work right now. You've clearly overcome many obstacles to be financially independent and why would you want to go backwards, in fact be dragged backwards, by someone who can't look after himself when it comes to money?

As you've said, your responsibility is to you and your DC. I really would be tempted to end the relationship (and I don't think I've ever said that on here before).

We talked last night after days of awkward and strained near silence. I asked all questions advised above, didn't get much in response. He says he lied because he was ashamed, not because he was 'afraid' to tell me, he was embarrassed.

I told him how he made me feel with his sneakiness and lies (foolish, in it on my own, frustrated, disappointed) and his response was "what do you want me to do" in frustration, I responded "be sorry!" Cue hours of crying, him having to leave the living room crying, a cigarette after quitting etc. it all seemed so put on. And echoed of last time he lied. Why wasn't he crying yesterday or the day before... Why not sit me down and EXPLAIN that you're remorseful rather than let me prise it out of you. It was like an act.

I'm not sure this is salvageable, his words mean nothing, I've heard it all before and yet here I am again.

I owe it to my DC to keep us secure, I feel far from it now. I sometimes wonder if I was better on my own, at least I knew where I stood.

Thank you all