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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

999 replies

DontstepontheMomeRaths · 23/08/2013 16:00

Thread opener here: webaunty.co.uk/mumsnet/
You may need to right-click and 'unblock' it after downloading it.

It's August 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.


Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield: 

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting
OP posts:
AndTheBandPlayedOn · 21/11/2013 19:16

Marissab, you are not responsible for your parents. They are adults, and their needs, perceived or real, are their problem to sort. Blaming/manipulating/emotionally abusing you is their coping mechanism. That does not create a contractural obligation to go dormant in your own life and be a puppet...just say no. You do not need to carry the guilt any more. Set it down today and leave it.

You are you son's best and primary advocate. Imho, you need to raise absoute hell over the schooling issue, lies, and that whole manipulation dynamic. It may be that your son has progressed beyond what your mother can or is used to dealing with, and she does not want to admit it. This may be a natural point to seek care elsewhere.

marissab · 21/11/2013 19:32

Yes i think your right. My son is hitting teenager age and puberty. That is the age that she became distant with me as well. But my sons aspieness makes him even more challenging i guess. I need to find some courage to challenge them. I am a walk over with them.

BigFatScaredyCat · 21/11/2013 23:44

Thanks Hissy, thanks Good2Better, been so much better since I posted, realised so much. Sorry not to respond sooner, been trying to read through the thread without dh knowing.

Yes I'd love counselling, I've a bit saved but not enough to blow on that. I'd really like to take my Mum to court, has anyone done/ is doing this? I know legal aid has been slashed recently.

I was tremendously happy when I met dh, I hadn't seen Mum for 12 or 13 years and she had no idea in the world where I was. Then I stupidly, stupidly, stupidly got in touch with her, because obviously everything was all my fault and she'd love me now I'd settled down and met this wonderful man. Aaaarrrgghhhh!!!!! Everything went really well at first, she was relatively normal and decent but then odd things got dropped into conversations, too much to post but made me ask lots questions to myself. Then the truth slowly, slowly dawned.

That's why it feels embarrassing I think, because we've always been treated as adults and never been allowed to be children, so we haven't been able to understand how malicious and relentless the people who are supposed to be looking out for us have been and we've had no way of protecting ourselves because we haven't the experience to understand why what's happening is wrong because we were only children. It's made all the worse that we remember how upset and scared it made us feel because we still feel that way and confuse it with understanding what was happening but we had no way of understanding at such young ages, sorry I'm rambling now.

Scrunchy just because your adoptive mother said something doesn't make it true and she's probably lying to hurt you, like she hasn't enough already. It's not your fault she's bonkers and it never was.

Pumpkin good luck with dh.

pumpkinsweetie · 22/11/2013 13:28

Thankyou BigCatSmile

It seems as though we are going to be kept waiting in suspense over this mystery item as the post has already been so i very much doubt whatever it is, is coming today.

pumpkinsweetie · 22/11/2013 17:13

The gift was a small hamper of fruit, kids raided it before i had a chance to give it awayGrin. Well what a crap guilt trip, really glad it was nout special as dh don't seem phased by it!

PollyPumpkins · 22/11/2013 18:07

Hello Fellow Mums Netters

Puts feet up with a nice cuppa - on reading some of the posts in this thread I feel I have found a safe haven in which to explore how family dysfunction impacts on adult children and their own relationships.

I intend to read what all you brave people have shared. Thank you!

Take Care

Hissy · 22/11/2013 19:25

Just read your thread.

You're home love! :) glad you made it!

(((((hug)))))

TheDrugsDontWork · 22/11/2013 19:28

Welcome Polly Smile

pumpkin A hamper of fruit?! A bit of an anticlimax after the guilt tripping. Good to read your DH isn't too bothered though.

Hissy · 22/11/2013 19:31

A fruit hamper?

A fecking fruit hamper?

Shock

All that for sodding fruit?

I always thought if you went to a dinner party and someone served fruit salad instead of a bloody gooey great big gateau or sommat, that it was a massive insult and a waste of time!

Ha ha! So you didn't even get to see it, cos it was only a small hamper?

Ace. Excellent. Legend.

Google 'Adopt a loo' - I hear you can give them as gifts. Just saying...

TheDrugsDontWork · 22/11/2013 20:29

Hissy I feel the same re deserts Grin

Adopt a loo?!

Christmas present for toxic mother - tick

Hope you're feeling a bit better about Christmas and you're mother's not giving you too much grief.

TheDrugsDontWork · 22/11/2013 20:32

That should be your not you're

pumpkinsweetie · 22/11/2013 20:39

Grin Must admit i tried very hard to hide my giggles when dh bought it in lol & had to go into the toilet to laugh myself silly into a tissue.

Hissy · 22/11/2013 21:37

Toilet Twinning.

That was it: www.toilettwinning.org/serious-stuff/the-need/

GoodtoBetter · 22/11/2013 21:44

A fruit hamper??? At least nobody will be feeling guilty now, that's a shit present!
I'm with you on the desserts thing. Talking of cakes, I've just made a chocolate and cinnamon cake and it's lush. Have had a lovely day and no contact from mad mother since about Monday, so that's been lovely.

Hissy · 22/11/2013 22:17

Best dessert I made last year was a chocolate tart; gingernut biscuit base, raspberry jam layer then topped with a layer of deep dark grenache.

The jam and the ginger cut through the chocolate, and it was just awesome.

Steeling myself to attempt a blackcurrant meringue pie next...

PollyPumpkins · 22/11/2013 22:24

Thank you for the warm welcome Hissy. Smile

I'm still reading ..... I could be some time.

Hissy · 22/11/2013 22:31

Best to just dive right in love. Every story is different, but the same in many ways.

The links are useful for though, good resources, plenty of aha moments to be had there!

DoYouEverFeelLikeAPlasticBag · 23/11/2013 09:24

Hi everyone,

I'm just dipping my toe into this thread as Hissy recommended it on a thread I started about my ridiculous enmeshed family. I had such wonderful support on my threads, but have been feeling a bit conscious of how prominent the last thread was and how scared I am of my family ever seeing it.

So I'd be happier just to blend in here and get the occasional support / opportunity to rant every now and then, if that's ok with everyone!

I haven't read through this thread yet, so I don't know anyone's story I'm sorry. But I will do soon.

My story in a nutshell - my married sister is having an affair with a married man. My usually very close family has been blown apart by it. My parents favour my sister, she is the golden child who can do no wrong. My sister cut me off for speaking my mind on the subject (I dared to tell her she ought to be honest with her DH), my parents have gone into minimizing overdrive and are supporting her blindly, including re-writing history to pretend that it's not her fault. They put huge pressure on me to do the same, and when I refused, we fell out. My mother ended up screaming at me that I was 'Bitter and Jealous' of my sister. Through posting on my own thread, I came to realize that we have an unhealthy enmeshed family dynamic, and I had a revelation that I don't have to support her in her awful behaviour, I don't have to agree with my parents, and I am allowed to take a step back from it all.

Today, I am staying in my old house near my family after attending a social event with them last night (I live with DP 30 mins down the road but kept my old house). I was sucked into the drama a bit last night, but my parents coldness towards me was noticeable, and that has helped galvanize me into knowing I'm doing the right thing.

I'm going to see my oldest friend this morning to offload with her. I think this will help Smile

Hope this is the right place, sorry if I'm butting in on other people's real problems with my silly little one!

GoodtoBetter · 23/11/2013 10:10

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarggh! Attack of the mad mother. Will be back later with more details.

GoodtoBetter · 23/11/2013 10:12

No problems on here are silly little problems plasticbag. Will be back later. xx

AttilaTheMeerkat · 23/11/2013 10:19

No problem on here is too small to mention PlasticBag and your birth family unit are completely dysfunctional.

GoodtoBetter - what has your mad mother been up to this time?. What emotional hand grenade has she tossed in now?.

(Hissy - blackcurrent meringue, yum. Can I have a slice?!!. BTW have you ever made peach cobbler, now there's a dessert!!.)

pumpkinsweetie · 23/11/2013 10:59

Wellcome PlasticBag no problem too small here x

Good your dm is off on one again, hope it isn't too bad?

Hissy loving the talk of meringues, infact i saw a lovely one on a fb page i would like to make for christmas, strawberries are used as santas hats, along with fresh cream mmmSmile

Just looked up how much was spent on this basket of fruit, it's was from ihampers! Think it's the £19.99 one, not cheap for milGrin and in all honesty i would have picked one of the more tastier ones with cheese in it!

Hissy · 23/11/2013 12:55

Good idea Atilla i'll be making that for christmas I think then!

Just me and DS this year, so there's definitely going to be spare slices going! You'd be welcome anytime! :)

Am loving the idea of strawberries for santas hats though... will have to Google it. are you on Mumsnetters FB group? If so, post it there!

G2B - hang in there love - come back and offload when you can?

plastic all our stories are trivial to us, because that's what we're told over the years. We'll all listen to you, and none of it will be at all trivial.

I'm too lazy to post properly on phone, but last weekend was trying with my dm. I was minutes away from her new home, but avoided all contact. Then I listened to the voicemail she left on Tuesday. Stupid decision, but it's refocused me into knowing it's a waste of time hoping she'll ever think she's in the wrong.

I was really down on Thurs, with the whole wtf's wrong with me. Why am I so alone? Why am I nobody's best friend? Why am I not in a relationship.

I think it's because i'm not caring for myself. I need to address that. The emotional side has been cared forn i'm healing slowly, but the physical side needs work now!

GoodtoBetter · 23/11/2013 14:52

Sooooo.....was having a lie in this am while DH was downstairs with DS (DD sleeping) and he comes up at 9am and says, your mother's just phoned me (he didn't pick up) check your phone.

sure enough...a voicemail. "I have a serious problem, the police have been here and I need a plumber".

So, I ring her and it's all sobbing and histrionics and gasping for breath. Outside in the street, where the water meter is, the tube had popped out of place and sent water gushing down the street at 2am. The neighbour saw it and rang DM's doorbell but it doesn't work. She called the local police who cut the water and rang but doorbell not working. The police came back this morning and the bell worked so they told her she had no water and what had happened and that she'd need a plumber. Not really a disaster, more a pain, one would think, no? Well, you can imagine....

So, I rang the friendly builder guy we use for everything and he was there in 15 mins and got the thing temporarily sorted till he can do it properly next Sat and charged nothing. Water back on.

But, it's all my fault obviously.

I went over as soon as we were dressed to explain to builder (J) about the bell and ask him to fix it and took her a piece of homemade cake. She was supposed to ask J to fix the bell on Monday when he was fixing the leak she'd had in her hall (also histrionics "I'll lose power to the whole house cos it's near the light fitiing, it'll bring the ceiling down") but it worked that day and he didn't charge her for the leak so she didn't want to ask him about the bell. It's HER bell in HER house, but apparently fixing it is MY problem and MY responsibility.

Then she says, "I don't understand how your father was such an awful man and yet when he was having difficulties he had all sorts of people offering him all sorts of help, and I have no one".
Well, he was an alcoholic but he did have a circle of friends and it's true, there were quite a lot of people at his funeral who were obviously fond of him. They may have been drinking buddies more than anything but he did make the effort to socialise, whereas she has made exactly 0 friends since coming here and lost contact with pretty much everyone from home, even though they've written to her and sent xmas cards and the like.

I said, you have me, you can ring me if you need help. "You didn't answer the phone, I was ringing from 8 and even DH didn't answer". I've checked my phone, first call was 9.06.

DM : "what if I fell and broke my hip?"

Me : well, you'd ring me I expect.

DM. "but you don't answer"

I was going to say, ring the ambulance but then I thought, she'll just start the whole, they can't get into the house cos of the bars on the windows crap. (All houses here have metal shutters or grills over the window that can't be moved)

so I just went. hmm.

DH came over so he could explain to J that the bell has a bit of plastic that's broken and he reckons that's what needs fixing. He stayed outside with J while I went in with the kids. Said he didn't want to come in. She didn't realise he was there.

Then as we were leaving she realised and said, "oh, DH do you want to come in?" and he said no thank you. Then she was saying, why's he there and why doesn't he come in?

I said, he was talking to J and then he got a phone call and we're going now. But she started doing the teary eyed thing. Then both children started tantrumming really badly and I had to literally carry them away, but we got away.

I should have said, because you were fucking awful to him and you've never apologised, but didn't fancy a rematch of last christmas so did the white lie about a phone call.

When she was at this house the last time he went out shopping beforehand and she was all "where is he, he didn't go out because of me, did he?"

But, she'll just turn it round to he ignores me. She used to do that when we were there..."DH never speaks to me, he only ever answers in monosyllables"

Hmmm, wonder why? Maybe because you treat him like shit on your shoe?

Supposed to be seeing her tmrw......not looking forward to that.

Why does EVERYTHING have to be such a fucking grade A MELODRAMA!

Anyone else would just be, argh, what an arse could you phone a plumber...the police called around and it appears this happened during the night.

If she can't cope with these things because of language then she needs to learn some more fucking Spanish or fuck off back to Britain.

God, I wish she would. I need some distance. We're going way for the weekend in 2 weeks, that'll help a bit.

GoodtoBetter · 23/11/2013 14:52

oooh that was really really long. sorry.

Swipe left for the next trending thread