"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

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It's August 2013, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013

Please check later posts in this thread for links & quotes. The main thing is: "they did do it to you" - and you can recover.

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's. 

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth. 

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0553814826/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0553814826&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.</a>

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.alice-miller.com/index_en.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Alice Miller</a>

<a class="break-all" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personality_disorder" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Personality Disorders definition</a>

More helpful links:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Daughters of narcissistic mothers</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://outofthefog.net/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Out of the FOG</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.vachss.com/av_dispatches/disp_9408_a.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">You carry the cure in your own heart</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.havoca.org/HAVOCA_home.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Help for adult children of child abuse</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.pete-walker.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Pete Walker</a>

Some books:

<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0749910542/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0749910542&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Homecoming</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1439129436/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1439129436&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Will I ever be good enough?</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0060929324/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0060929324&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">If you had controlling parents</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0385304234/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0385304234&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">When you and your mother can't be friends</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1572245611/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=1572245611&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Children of the self-absorbed</a>
<a class="break-all" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0671701355/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1634&creative=19450&creativeASIN=0671701355&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-relationships-1834279-But-We-Took-You-To-Stately-Homes-Survivors-of-Dysfunctional-Families" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Recovery of your inner child</a>

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield: 

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

Is there anybody on here who is the child of a schizophrenic?

My father died when I was 3 and my mother went on to develop paranoid schizophrenia. She was very violent and abusive and was eventually institutionalised for many years when I was a teen.

My maternal grandmother eventually took my mother to court when I was 11 and I became a ward of court. She also suffered terribly by my mothers illness. I stayed with various other relatives, family friends throughout my childhood and changed schools several times up to that point.

At no point did social services or any other professional body seem to worry about me. It was only when my Grandmother went to court, did social services talk to me to see if my Grandmother was a fit carer! I had suffered severe neglect (being deliberately and maliciously starved, deprived of sleep, washing facilities etc) and severe violence (boiling drinks thrown at me, knife attacks, broken bottles, drowning etc.) and lots more.

One of my biggest issues as an adult is that I hate being the centre of attention and feeling like I'm not important. I find it difficult to prioritise my own needs above anyone elses. It's not hard to see where that has come from, I only saw professionals who were caring about my Mother, not me!

I have tried counselling as an adult but have had a lot of talk about how "you're an adult now and you can change your thinking and you don't have to be that little vulnerable girl anymore". It makes sense but it is difficult to apply to everyday life.

Just wondered if anyone else had been through similar?

Go ahead and hide her, goodtobetter, imho.
I think she is using you to feel good about herself, for those nasty types that can only feel good about themselves by putting someone else down. Let her use someone else. She apparently has no intention of offering you support, even through simple acknowledgment.

I think Stately Homes is support for dysfunctional families, but also for the associated consequences of having that kind of upbringing...
Social connections as adults are challenging because of the distorted "care" we received in our youth.

I was a bit shocked she never even acknowledged the e mail about DM, not even "Oh I never look at that e mail, sorry to hear things were hard" type waffle. Just totally ignored it.

Hello Tess
Sorry for the absolute crap time you have had. And that teacher can rot in hell for creating that label for you.
Can you step away from your family of origin for a break? I do not necessarily mean going no contact (although that may ultimately be best as they will never treat you as the intelligent strong adult that you obviously are) with them, but they could/should be a lower priority than your family of dh and dc. As they are actively disinterested, let that ride and don't look back. I know, easier said than done.

It is difficult to get beyond the injustice of the favortism offered to your sister. It brings to mind the idea of:??if she was not your sister, would you still be friends with her? If she does not bring a positive feeling to your life, I would reduce contact with her too.

GoodtoBetter

I would hide her as well as this so called friend of yours is not that at all. To me from what you write that person seems like another version of your mother.

Oooh, in what way Attila had never thought of it like that?

Hi Istheresupport,
I don't like being the center of attention either and often feel, if not important, then totally irrelevant. But I did not suffer anything near to what you described. My mother was a bipolar alcoholic, father a workaholic (to avoid her?) and in denial about her issues. I was an "invisible" child, the youngest of 3 girls.

Can you try a different counsellor? I got the "that was then, this is now" mantra which helps put some crap in the past...but then I find I must ban the past from my everyday functioning...if that makes any sense. Banning the past is ...but living in the present is the key I think.

Goodtobetter, your "friend" is completely dismissive of you...maybe that is how your mother is too (without going back to previous page to reread, sorry )?

Well, I hid her from my newsfeed today and feel much better. Ironically, today I met a friend who used to live here but I haven't seen for about 3 years, she's here on holiday atm and it was lovely. Brought FB friend's ignoring of me into sharp relief.
Funnily enough FB friend and I seemed to have so much in common when we met and this friend today I didn't even like when we first met years ago! I guess with time people show their true colours.

And now my mother is at it again.
I found an injured kitten last week and so, as this is how it works here, rang the local police who organised the animal shelter to come and pick it up. DM knows all this.
She's just rung me saying she's got a kitten in her house as it was in her garden with its mother when the sprinkler went off. Said it's crying for the mother cat (outside). What should she do? I said, put him back in the garden. She says she wants "advice", I thought she meant should she keep it, which surprised me, so I asked her, she says, no she means should we try to rehome it. I was a bit surprised and said, but I can't rehome it, meaning I can't look after it and it's not the responsibility of the local police cos it's not injured, you've just picked up a stray in your garden.
So she says, no I mean get a taxi to the shelter. By this she means ME organised/book a taxi and take her and this kitten to the shelter. It's about half an hour away and in the middle of nowhere, an arse to find. I was a bit surprised and said (admittedly in surprised tones), but the shelter's shut at the weekend. (It is). She starts "Fine!, Nevermind, forget it! I just wanted advice! Goodbye and puts the phone down".
Is that not WEIRD behaviour??
Have resisted the temptation to ring her back and....and..well I don't know really.

Well, she did say forget it....
Yes, very wierd and difficult behavior. It was not about the kitten, was it? It was about controlling you. Shelter was closed, game over.

I just got the overriding impression that your "frenemy" on FB was working along similar lines to your mother. She trained you well:(. She reads the same to your mother in that she also puts you down, your opinions do not matter (this lady did not respond at all to your e-mails), only contacts you to talk about her "wonderful" her own life is.

Your mother's recent behaviour is just the very latest in a long line of her own dysfunction. It was never about the kitten (for which she could not give a fig anyway), more about control along the lines of getting you yet again to dance to her tune.

We'd normally see DM tomorrow morning. I got a text just now saying "In bed with streaming shivery cold, so tmrw seems unlikely".

Classic PA behaviour. Would be funny if it weren't annoying.

Going to reply, "oh dear that's a pity, let me know about tomo"

Wow G2B, some very interesting twists and turns there, are you learning to see your mother in others?

I'd say that not feeling comfortable with this friend you saw today when you first knew her bodes well. The comfortable is what you were used to - your mother..

The kitten in priceless, she wanted drama... there was none.

So the cold... ditto!

Detach!

Another text: "Truly awful cold. Don't want you or the kids to get it. Made soup yday so got food". Bless, she's gong for the...you're leaving me ill and to starve angle now.
I said, OK let me know if you need anything tmrw.
Ha ha ha! Wonder if there'll be any more. Bet she stages a miraculous recovery tomorrow!
Feel much better for ignoring this PA shit from DM and much stronger for hiding frenemy from news feed. I don't need any more people in my life who make me feel crap about myself, even if it is projection on my part...but as you've all said...the not responding about the e mail was a bit low.

Onwards an upwards! Off now for coffee and chocolate with lovely village friend. :)

Managed to drop my phone down the toilet while I was out, so she can't text me again anyway now! Ha ha ha!

Istheresupport, I've been working with an integrative therapist to learn what you describe: being heard and taking care of my own needs instead of putting everybody else first. And yes, it's about letting the past be the past, but unlike what some counsellors say, it's not as straightforward as just letting go of yourself as a vulnerable child. Until she feels heard and safe/taken care of, that vulnerable child inside of you will continue to try and get her needs made in your adult relationships. Have you tried a therapist who does inner child work or transactional analysis? Both have been very useful for me.

Can I have a rant please? I found this thread to be very helpful when dealing with shit from my family a few years ago, though I have namechanged since then. I left home (250 miles) 11 years ago and shit is still getting to me, whenever I so much as get in touch with my sister. I'll try and give a brief overview (sorry in advance)

Im the eldest of 3 - me 31, db 26 and dd 15. Ive always had little to no confidence and low self esteem, no encouragement from my parents- when I came home all happy aged 17 cos Id enrolled on an art course at college I was promptly told that 'college wont get you anywhere' and I had to find a job cos I needed to pay my keep (I don't think I was aware at the time that going to college wouldn't have stopped the child benefit, as my mum told me.) I was belittled until I gave up and left the course, despite my tutor asking me seriously to reconsider as he saw potential in me. How I wish Id listened! When I left and then couldn't find a job (seaside town, everything closed outside of the season etc) my mum took most of my giro, leaving me 20 per fortnight. I was already staying out of the way, and bulk cooking pasta and tuna to keep in 'my' section of the fridge as she was no longer cooking for me. I started smoking a lot of weed, got pretty depressed etc. At 19 I packed 2 bags of clothes (all I had) and left.

My childhood was hard and unhappy, I look back now and many things make sense finally - I was the kid to needed her hair trimmed and washed more often, I was the girl who smelt and didn't know how to look after herself. I didn't know I was meant to wash and change underwear everyday, my diet was poor, I was bullied because of my clothes, I just wanted to fit in. I tried to fade away at school so that I wouldn't get singled out for any reason, be it because of bullying, or because I might've known the answer in class. I spent breaktimes and lunchtimes alone, and spent my evenings and weekends in my room.I gave up, and tried committing suicide aged 16.

My parents were violent and had terrible anger problems which they took out on me, and to this day I despise them for passing on a temper to me. I cant handle criticism, I see it as a completely personal attack and my defences go up, or I see it as further proof that yes, my parents were right and I am fucking useless.

A while after Id left home, I was having councelling etc and trying to get my shit together. It obviously brought up allsorts that Id tried to keep inside. I tried talking to my mum and writing letters but a) she would play things down, like I was making them up. I thought I was going crazy (anti depressants from age 17 to about 22) and b) I was so angry and she would just stonewall me and not say much. When I was pregnant with my own dd and needed my mums help (there was a concern dd wouldn't make it when she was born) I asked mum if she could stay for a week to watch my son whilst I had dd (dh's family not local either.) I was in floods on the phone worried about my baby and she said she 'couldn't just drop everything' - this from a woman who didn't even have a job to worry about cover etc. At my hardest point she wasn't going to be there for me and this was my final thing - I since stopped looking for her approval or expecting anything from her. Despite it being super hard to realise, Im now in a better place for it.

With the love of my dh and making my own way and my own family I was able to let things go somewhat, perhaps not completely but over the last 11 years Ive more or less come to terms with things, Im not happy about them but Im happier now than Ive ever been. What Im struggling with is when I chat with my sister I see how much better she has it, she has everything she could want and mum and dad take her places and show her respect. They treat her as they should. They get involved with her studies and schooling and are supporting her through college and the course of her choice next year. She doesn't go hungry, she is looked after well and her clothes are clean and fit well. Her feet don't hurt from wearing shoes that are too tight and were found by the road (yes really!) Im happy things are as they should be for her, but it leaves me wondering - why couldn't they have done the same for me? It feels like they did nothing but despise me, and punish me for even being. I didn't need to be spoilt, just accepted and encouraged to do well. I cant say anything because years have passed, she wouldn't listen to me anyway, and as a grown up I should be able to let this shit go.

I don't even know where Im going with this. Dh says maybe she'd never admit it but theyre doing this with my sister precisely because they didn't with me. Im currently 22 weeks pregnant with my 3rd so I know hormones are everywhere, but I look at my children and vow to do the absolute best for them that I can. I ignore my nerves and anxiety with most things in order to attend school activities, take them to swimming lessons etc because I know its best for them. As soon as Ive had each child, prob even before they were born Ive already promised them that I'll love them and respect them and be there for them always. She wont even get to meet this baby I expect, they wont come up and Ive sworn that Im not doing the trip anymore, 11 years of this and I refuse to keep being the giver. If it wasn't for my granddad Id cut ties with all of them completely.

Super sorry for the length of this, Im in bits now and I just needed to get it out.

That's really rambly, I apologise! I had to stop as my eyes were getting too blurry to post properly I sound like a child who hasn't got their own way, I didn't mean it to come across like that. I think Im just so used to walking on eggshells, I rarely even post on here because I worry I'll piss someone off. My dad went mental at me one day because I didn't 'smoothly' scrape the butter out of the tub, I dug a bit out and this was 'incorrect'..... He punched me in the face in front of my friends when I was 17, I left home for a week. He'd call me a slag for having friends that were boys, he called me a fat slag when I was having a sandwich in the front room one day. I hated him so much, he came flying at me one day cos Id answered back, hit me round the head and I fell back and hit the back door. I wished he'd killed me that day.

Its so conflicting because now when Ive seen them, they just look old. My dad looks like an old man. Sorry Ive got to stop again now.

Hi GuyMartinsSideburns,

Actually you do not come across as at all self pitying at all let alone a child who didn't get their own way all the time. Your parents utterly and abjectly failed you and saw it fit to neglect you as a child. I am only sorry that no-one in authority thought it necessary to help you, you were invisible back then.

Your parents were wrong to treat you as they did and you are in no way useless. You are a survivor, a great wife to your DH and a great mum to your children.

Never ever think it unwise to post on here either; you will not so call "piss someone off" for doing so. That's your inbuilt conditioning at the hands of your parents talking again. Ignore that damming voice in your head.

Re your comment:-
"If it wasn't for my granddad Id cut ties with all of them completely"

You are also not obligated to him either so why is he acting as the glue here?. Does he want you to stay in contact with them and continue to play your role in maintaining the image of their "perfect family"?. Sod that for a game of soldiers.

After what you have been through I would cut all ties with these toxic parents of yours who made you the scapegoat for all their inherent ills. They are indeed now old and pathetic looking but that still does not excuse what they have done. A good rule of thumb here as well is that if they are too toxic for you, they are certainly too damn toxic for your children to have any form of contact with. Toxic parents never make for being good grandparents. Do not make the trip to see them.

You do not need their approval any more, not that they ever freely gave it anyway.

Would you consider counselling again?. Counsellors though are like shoes, you need to find someone who fits with you.

Attila - thank you very much for your reply, it means a lot. Do excuse any mistakes here as I'm now on my phone. I've sometimes considered counseling again and I think if I keep coming back to this point then I will. My grandad - he's been pretty much the only decent member of my family, I used to stay at his house at weekends and school holidays. I was always happy there and never worried about drunken fights or arguments. We used to play shops or go for walks, or do my homework together. He never so much as raised his voice to me and always had time for me. Looking back I wish id stayed there permanently. I view him separately to all that went on. My parents were good at keeping things under wraps and I certainly wasn't going to speak out. My grandad was found to have a brain tumour a couple of years ago, kept blacking out and has become quite forgetful. Hes the only one who contacts me, and hes the one I miss. I just cant make that trip, it messes me up for a few weeks afterwards and I cant keep going through it. Grandad asks me if we're visiting at xmas, I'm using dh's work as the excuse why we cant this year. Not sure if I'll crack though, i do miss him terribly.

I remember telling my mum I wanted to move out one day and she started doing all this 'shocked face' bullshit and crying and I backed down. One time when I was around 11 or so she came at me to hit me, I screamed, crouched down and put my arms around my head to protect myself, I remember shouting "don't hit me, please don't hit me" she looked at me like shit and said "I don't hit you THAT' much"
I obviously never said much to anyone about how it was at home and my mum is so sweetness and light to everyone that perhaps people wouldve thought I was exaggerating or something, though thinking back to how I looked, how I was too shy to speak etc it must have been obvious something wasn't right. I had a close friend at primary and used to stay at hers a lot. Her parents were amazing, i hated it when they dropped me home. I remember her mum used to give me the biggest hug and kiss my cheek when she said bye, thinking back i guess she realised. She was lovely.

Thanks for replying xx

Sideburns Your parents sound awful and there is no reasonable explanation for why they treated you so differently to your sister. They are toxic, abusive people.

I can't give better advice than Attila but just wanted to second her saying that you don't sound at all like a child who hasn't got their own way, and no one minds you posting here as much as you want. It's what this thread is for. You don't need to apologise for anything Sending you hugs.

Oh sweety, it's not that you sound like a child that hasn't got her own way, it's that you sound like a child that's been so badly treated!

You have an absolute right to be angry. How would you feel if someone treated any one of your babies like that?

Mad? Murderous potentially!

You have that right to feel indignant, to be livid at the absolutely diabolical treatment you suffered.

So rant away, it will help you heal. It won't change anything that happened, but you will know that it wasn't you. You didn't do this chick, it was them.

What they did doesn't define you, you have a H and DC of your own, they haven't taken your life from you, you have survived them. You will continue on, you will grow, they will always be nasty horrible little people that won't be missed when they've gone.

Attila - thank you very much for your reply, it means a lot. Do excuse any mistakes here as I'm now on my phone. I've sometimes considered counseling again and I think if I keep coming back to this point then I will. My grandad - he's been pretty much the only decent member of my family, I used to stay at his house at weekends and school holidays. I was always happy there and never worried about drunken fights or arguments. We used to play shops or go for walks, or do my homework together. He never so much as raised his voice to me and always had time for me. Looking back I wish id stayed there permanently. I view him separately to all that went on. My parents were good at keeping things under wraps and I certainly wasn't going to speak out. My grandad was found to have a brain tumour a couple of years ago, kept blacking out and has become quite forgetful. Hes the only one who contacts me, and hes the one I miss. I just cant make that trip, it messes me up for a few weeks afterwards and I cant keep going through it. Grandad asks me if we're visiting at xmas, I'm using dh's work as the excuse why we cant this year. Not sure if I'll crack though, i do miss him terribly.

I remember telling my mum I wanted to move out one day and she started doing all this 'shocked face' bullshit and crying and I backed down. One time when I was around 11 or so she came at me to hit me, I screamed, crouched down and put my arms around my head to protect myself, I remember shouting "don't hit me, please don't hit me" she looked at me like shit and said "I don't hit you THAT' much"
I obviously never said much to anyone about how it was at home and my mum is so sweetness and light to everyone that perhaps people wouldve thought I was exaggerating or something, though thinking back to how I looked, how I was too shy to speak etc it must have been obvious something wasn't right. I had a close friend at primary and used to stay at hers a lot. Her parents were amazing, i hated it when they dropped me home. I remember her mum used to give me the biggest hug and kiss my cheek when she said bye, thinking back i guess she realised. She was lovely.

Thanks for replying xx

The biggest battle we have to overcome here is our fear of facing up to the truth bout our parents. The fear is all consuming.

When we analyse that fear, and it's intensity and power, we realise that it's the fear we had instilled in us in childhood. Our fear of the big grownup bullies, their standing in doorways, clipping our ears as we ducked under their arms, their banging fists on tables, shouting or hitting.

Try to find the adult within, and help the adult comfort the child that was so badly failed. I found if I made my head stick to the facts, it's easier to be constructive rather than allow my childhood fears stop me from doing what i'd do in a heartbeat if not my family.