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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Is this abuse and should I make him leave?

26 replies

Thefemaleunicorn · 20/08/2013 09:04

Dh and I have been married 10yrs and have 3 dcs aged 8,5,2.

We have always had a firey relationship ie blazing rows before we had kids but they were a rare thing balanced by a strong relationship. We've had some rough times, dh has been diagnosed with depression after his family rejected me and tried to sabotage our relationship (offered me money to not marry him etc) but mainly from his work and he left a bullying boss recently. He had a nervous breakdown last year after bring made redundant. He doesn't cope well with family life says he is 'married with kids when he should be having fun' to quote the song. It also idolises the children and is great with them 90% of the time........

Since his depression started (2yrs) he has been short fused, he put me in a head lock one night and swung me round the room - I hit him back then called the police but he ripped the phone out of the wall. The police arrived anyway and gave him a warning. I then asked him to stay at his parents for a while which he did. He then started losing it with the kids mainly when they are naughty he can't control himself and has picked them up by the shoulders and shook them, has thrown them down on the bed etc. never hits them but 'man handles' them. He mainly picks on ds 5. He flicks his ear, shouts at him, shakes him, grabs him by the arm which has left marks. Yesterday I was working from home and was on the phone to a client ds comes to the office room and dh says no don't go in there ds ignores him next thing ds is screaming and dh has lost shouting at him ds is on the floor with a big hand print under his armpit where dh grabbed him. Dh said he was stopping him coming in.

This behaviour is 10% of the time. The rest of the time I couldn't wish for a better dad to the kids or husband. He plays with them takes them to soft play etc.

I told him to get anger mgt counselling or he would have to leave that was a year ago. He's having the counselling and it got better but its started again.

I told his parents and they said he's never been like that until I came along. They told me they would want custody of the three dcs and they are top drs so would hire a top solicitor.

Dh is terrified I will leave him. I've told him to stay away this week. I'm not a shrinking violet, I have told him it has to stop or he lives away and sees the kids at weekends. I've started logging times and photos of what he's done to the children and I can't let him keep doing this, I have to protect them.

My friend says I'm over reacting that dh is lovely and its obviously depression related. Dh is mortified and says he hates himself and that he is gutted. My mum and sister say its sad but I have to do something.

I'm on mat leave but a out to go back to work, I have no money but will have shortly.

I feel like running away with the kids. I am so soul destroyed. Please fellow mums - help me. What should I do?

OP posts:
LifeofPo · 20/08/2013 09:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NellysKnickers · 20/08/2013 09:11

Well for a start its highly unlikely his parents would get custody, so don't waste time worrying about that. You need to see a solicitor, see if you can get a free half hour somewhere. You also need to call the police if he hurts dcs anymore, show them you are protecting them. Someone far more knowledgeable will be along soon. Good luck.

Vivacia · 20/08/2013 09:14

I have to protect them.

Yes. You do.

LoisPuddingLane · 20/08/2013 09:19

I told his parents and they said he's never been like that until I came along

What bollocks, and how nasty of them to pass the buck. Anger like this doesn't just start from nowhere.

Even if what he is doing is only 10% of the time, it's abuse. He shakes the children - babies have died from being shaken. He leave handprints on them, he throws them around. Good lord, how can this NOT be abuse?

spanna41 · 20/08/2013 09:20

the fact that it's happening at all is unacceptable. there are no excuses for his 'man handling' of your children. I would ask him to leave and make sure I am there when he sees the children. Ignore his parents - offering to pay you not to marry him WTF!!!
Good luck and there will be experienced MNs to advise you soon. x

Original poster
Thefemaleunicorn · 20/08/2013 09:27

Ok thanks Sad

OP posts:
LifeofPo · 20/08/2013 09:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bibliomania · 20/08/2013 09:34

Yes, it's abuse, and yes, he needs to go. Contact Women's Aid - they can give you very specific advice.

If he leaves a mark on one of the dcs again before you have the chance to get him out, take the child to the GP and insist that it is logged.

10% of the time to be abused is a LOT.

Don't worry about his parents saying they'll get the dcs to live with them - most unlikely unless you have a eg a serious heroin habit.

LoisPuddingLane · 20/08/2013 09:37

And just to give you the little push you might need - do you want your children's earliest memories to be of their father "manhandling" them and shaking and throwing them?

Original poster
Thefemaleunicorn · 20/08/2013 10:05

But won't the gp contact social services

OP posts:
bibliomania · 20/08/2013 10:21

SS is your ally if you're serious about protecting your dcs, not your enemy.

Delilahlilah · 20/08/2013 10:23

Yes, you need to protect your children. Including involving SS. I'm sorry, but I wouldn't give him the chance to mark my child ever again. There is no excuse for his behaviour. Depression is serious and requires help, but it is not a licence to behave in any manner you feel like and be excused for it.

PearlJam · 20/08/2013 10:31

I've been "man-handled" by my OH, lots. Apparently it wasn't violence, not like his Mum had experienced at the hands of his Dad. So it didn't count and anyway I'd provoked it.
It was fucking horrible, being thrown around, pushed violently onto bed etc. one time I hit my head, hard.
A serious injury can result from this kind of thing. Protect yourself and your children. Don't let them experience the fear I did.
Get all the help you can, WA, Gp,.
Be strong for your kids, they need you.

LoisPuddingLane · 20/08/2013 10:38

It's horrible to think of these very small, defenceless people being subject to his temper. They must be terrified.

Jan45 · 20/08/2013 10:56

Absolute abuse, of you and the children, your children will think it's normal and probably manhandle their own kids, get out now whilst they are young and are able to get over what he has done to them. He sounds a complete nutcase, 10% or not, you can't respect a man that is doing this. He's had bad luck, it happens, it's life, doesn't give you an excuse to be abusive, cos that's what he is using to justify his disgusting behaviour.

It won't stop until you make sure of it and keep him away from you and the kids and prove to you that he is getting help cos he clearly needs it. I have friend with depression and worst scenarios that his and they don't go about using brute force.

His flicking of the 5 year olds ear is bad enough, what a fucken bully.

badtime · 20/08/2013 11:30

It may well be true that he was never like that before - his parents sound very unpleasant, and he may well be as afraid of them as you are; he subsequently tries to make his children afraid of him because that's what parents do. This would be nothing to do with you or your influence.

Why are you so afraid of social services?

EhricLovesTeamQhuay · 20/08/2013 11:57

Social services are not your enemy. This must stop, now, you must protect your children from this abusive man.
Children should experience abuse 0% of the time. 10% is horrendous.
Your son is 5, he will talk to someone at school, holiday club, another child's parent. I know my DS would! This will get out one way or another and you may be viewed as failing to protect your children. That will reflect worse on you than telling the gp, social services or the police right now.
Grandparents don't get residence unless both parents are unsafe - are you unsafe? If the answer is no then forget their empty threats.
I'm not going to lie and say all social workers are good at their job but 90% of the ones I've met (lots) will understand abuse dynamics and understand your position. They will help you, as long as you help yourself and your children.

Katiebeau · 20/08/2013 12:12

Please get away from him. This is abuse of you and it's also child abuse. Everyone here will help try and support you.

Vivacia · 20/08/2013 12:19

It's horrible to think of these very small, defenceless people being subject to his temper.

And I'm sorry, but I think that then having your mum take photos and records is horrible too. Why are you taking photos?

Jux · 20/08/2013 12:23

Please call SS and ask for their help.

Please call Women's Aid and ask for their help.

Please call 101 and ask for help.

Please.

Smerlin · 20/08/2013 12:25

His parents wouldn't get custody of your children. But you do need to involve Social Services to show that you are the one trying to protect your children.

noisytoys · 20/08/2013 12:34

10% of the time? That's over an hour every day. That is their whole life. Your babies are being abused for all of their life. They know no different. They don't know when he will flip. When he is being nice, they know it won't last. Please protect them Sad

Original poster
Thefemaleunicorn · 20/08/2013 13:46

I've called women's aid thanks

OP posts:
OxfordBags · 20/08/2013 14:08

This isn't manhandling, you must stop minimising and lying to yourself - that is ABUSE. Your OH is abusing your children. That 10% figure means shit; if a father raped his daughter once a month, would that mean it was infrequent enough to justify him not being kicked out? Being abused for 10% of the time still means being a damaged and broken adult for life, and more likely to abuse or be abused themselves. He also sounds like he is focusing on your DS2 as his favourite victim. This is further proof, as if any is needed, that he is choosing his behaviour.

It also doesn't matter that he is remorseful. Most abusers are remorseful, genuinely or because they don't like feeling bad a out themselves or the fear of losing their victims. Sounds like the latter, with him being terrified of you leaving him.

Having depression is no excuse for becoming an abuser. I would not be surprised that if you wentinto detail about your life with him, either here, or to a counsellor, it would be clear that he had displayed abusive behaviour throughout, even if you didn't recognise it, or excused it, whatever. He clearly comes from a very unpleasant family, who have been abusive towards you -surely it must be clear to you that thisis not your fault, as they say, but a case of 'the apple not falling far from the tree'?

Logging things, taking pictures is all very good, but it's not stopping him from abusing them. The things you desceibe him doing are shocking. No-one is going to thank you for letting him continue to abuse them and you taking the details of it all. You don't need proof like that to kick him out, nor to present to police or whatever, and you certainly should not need proof to yourself that he must go. If you stay and keep logging, it's just you being totally complicit in him abusing them, as you have noted in detail what he's doing, and have the direct proof of the photos and yet you are doing nothing to stop the abuse. Sorry to be harsh, but it's true.

What's more, he is abusing you, and being part of a home with abuse between the parents is very specific form of mental and emotional abuse for children. So this is much, much more than '10%'.

Am glad you have contacted WA, but you need to get rid of this abuser.

OxfordBags · 20/08/2013 14:09

PS PIL won't get custody. Grandparents have no rights like that.