He's having an affair but denies it - can I force him to leave?

[smiddlemere]

I've been reading Whyonearth's post and find myself in a similar situation. H and I have been together 25 yrs, 2 late teenage children. 5 years ago at the end of some couples counselling I found out he had been seeing women ( he says no sex had happened) via a married people dating site. He asked for an open relationship, I said no. We've bumbled along, no sex, no real interest in me, what I'm feeling etc. H is a keen sportsman and has now started a relationship with a v flirtatious woman at his club, I guess about a year ago, which sort of explains his attendance in body but not mind at the second series of couples counselling we had that finished last Xmas.
He also works with her - just the 2 of them in a company he started. I have seen messages between them that leave no doubt in my mind that are involved emotionally. I confronted him recently and he flatly denied it saying she was a 'supportive friend'. He described her as flirtatious and needy, told me about a number of men who are attracted to her and that she is looking for a long term partner - she is recently divorced. He said he was totally committed to his family (but not to me, I noted). I told him I wanted him to leave ( our lovely home which we both love) after our upcoming family holiday. He said 'I'm not leaving' as though this were a preposterous suggestion. I am financially independent, in fact my income is what we live off day to day, although he does contribute about the same overall for projects/hols etc.
My question to mumsnetters is how can I make him go if he continues to refuse? Any ideas and help please!

sorry, I don't think you can make him go if he doesn't want to. it's his home too.

File for divorce?

Don't stay because of a house. Would the kids go with you?

Thanks for the posts I see there are other insomniacs around! I thought I wouldn't be able to force him - it is indeed his home too.. I suppose I hoped he might consider it the honourable thing to do. Mixxy I don't want to leave my home either I have close friends and neighbours. One sprog is off to uni, I suspect the other wd stay with his father in our home if i left as he hates change.

I have been wondering whether to keep 'living the lie' as he seems to want to do, and just join a dating site?

Divorce him, see if he'll go then cite adultery, collect the evidence he is being unreasonable

Don't join a site and sink to his level

I agree, file for divorce. He wants to have his cake and eat it. Don't leave without your children, your not so 'D' H is the one in the wrong, you shouldn't suffer any more than necessary to get rid of him.

Ah no don't join a dating site. Just setting the whole family up for a shit show. Help him leave. You've tried counselling twice. He's tried dating sites, more than once. Tell him, look we tried our honest best, it didnt work. You still have a chance to find new love and so do I. Lets take that chance together. Now fuck off.

Thank you everyone. Esp for the advice about not sinking to his level! I'm mulling it all over....

Agree don't sink to his level. Contact a solicitor and start divorce proceedings. Do you have a spare room? I would take the first step and move into it this weekend.

Divorce. Your happiness is much more important.
He is walking all over you in regards to this OW.
Your DC probably see that too -what example is that setting?

So he says there's no sex between him and this OW but the OW is looking for a relationship - and you really believe that???

Even if they're not shagging (they are), he's showing you no respect whatsoever, you've tried, it isn't working, leave whilst you can and don't waste any more time on a man who isn't interested.

You can then find yourself somebody that actually wants to spend their life with you, not just share a nice house.

He's having an emotional affair, but very rarely do they not seem to end up being sexual.

Do what you need to do to be happy. And your 'D'H is doing nothing to help that as he is busy looking after himself. As someone said to me "he's checked out". I actually ended up getting a divorce (well nearly there) on grounds of adultery.

Probably best to separate, even in your own home, so that means separate bedrooms, no washing, no cooking, no life together

Snoop as well - you may not be able to use the evidence but it means that you have inside knowledge if you do go for divorce and he decides to lie about finances.

I'd get a PI onto him, personally. He's not staying because of you, is he? He's emotionally detached himself. I'd get the evidence (doesn't sound as though it would be hard for a PI to get) and then I'd file for divorce on the basis of infidelity.

If you have the money, too, go to see a solicitor as soon as you get the PI evidence.

You need to play hard ball with this man.

separate bedrooms, no washing, no cooking, no life together
I'd start with this and see how long he lasts.
He'll soon be out the door to be looked after by the OW!
And do NOT keep 'living the lie'.
You are throwing your chance of a happy life away if you do this.
You know deserve happiness.
Separate as best you can and take it from there.

This is scary but v helpful. I have thought of a PI (where do I get one?) - until this morning much of my knowledge/evidence came from reading the texts between him and the OW - and I'm sure they are having sex although it has not been specifically mentioned. He must have realised I was doing this (yesterday I accidentally opened a new message before he saw it) so he's changed his password but hasn't said anything about it. There were 2 texts and a vmail from her this morning. Your descriptions of his 'checking out' are bang on - and the fact that I feel just so absolutely miserable and unvalued. I don't know if I can cope with living a separate life under the same roof - and not sure how it would affect the children (16 and 18). He's not the sort that needs looking after - we share domestic stuff - so can't see him rushing off to the OW for that. But maybe I'll tell him I want him to move into the spare room this weekend whilst I'm away seeing a couple of old uni friends. I've arranged to see the counsellor we saw for the last sessions of couple counselling on my own - but not for another 2 weeks. Aaargh

I think you are going to have to move into the spare room yourself, and then file for divorce. Again, you can't force him to change bedrooms any more than you can force him to leave his home. I appreciate how you feel but realistically, if he refuses to move into the other bedroom you are looking at an undignified battle of shuttling belongings to and fro which is no good for anyone.

Your DC may be upset over a divorce, but they will already be unsettled by his contemptuous treatment of you, and they are old enough to be more concerned with their own lives and own futures than with your marriage, so try to keep it as calm and civil as you can - do you think your H cares about the DC enough to agree a civilised separation with you, or will he start to play up?

I understand your point about needing to do the moving myself. I don't think the DCs would see his treatment of me to be contemptuous - they know nothing of the OW, for eg. H is very committed to and cares hugely about the children, I think that's why he's still here. I can imagine him saying we shouldn't tell them about the OW.

In this instance I agree with the idea of getting a PI. If you can afford it, and all you need is proof, it would be worth getting the evidence, filing for divorce and, as main carer of children in full time education, you would be able to stay in the house with them. Probably. But only until they are out of FT education.

But if that is enough to get him to move out, he would probably stay out. You might have to buy him out of the mortgage. Get the PI first, get the evidence and then see a solicitor.

Get it all sorted so that you are ready to confront him in your own good time. In the meantime, carry on as normal so that he doesn't suspect that you are taking action.

Do you really need a PI - I had heard that they are now reluctant to take on private divorce work unless sanctioned by a court. I snooped myself - none of it could be used "officially" but it was useful for knowing what was going on with the lies and the affair and checking the financial disclosure.

I am only now considering using a PI - the OW is still with my ex and has access to my DC. I have investigated her as best I can do and the trail is very thin. There are some very odd things about her lifestyle and I am very bothered that she is a gold-digger (sounds terribly old fashioned!) so I want to understand that better to protect DC's financial interests.

Children pick up on tension & atmosphere between parents. So the fact that he's nice to them and has checked out from you will not have passed them by. And you're sending them the message that this kind of relationship is normal. As they're teenagers they may even suspect him of having an affair...

I think PIs should always be a last resort, but in this case I can't see what choice you have.

You can't go on living with a man who is treating you with such contempt. The only way to get rid of him is get hard evidence of adultery, (I don't believe they're not having sex), & he's covering his tracks. Trying to get evidence on your own will be very stressful, so I would leave it to a professional.

I think you need to feel in control of your life, because he's taking that away from you. First step is to move into the spare room yourself, then get on with finding a PI.

Bear in mind that in order to divorce someone on the grounds of adultery you or he has to move out within 6 months of its discovery.
Do not move out yourself, as others have said, you may well be granted the house in the divorce.

"He asked for an open relationship, I said no. We've bumbled along, no sex, no real interest in me, what I'm feeling etc"

That is the point at which I would have asked him to leave. He told you quite openly what he wanted and you declined (I don't blame you TBH) , and it sounds as if he has gone out and found it regardless. Whether he is having an affair or not, you aren't happy.

Ok I've decided my course of action for now- and thanks to everyone for the thoughts and advice. It was an awful day yesterday but I feel a bit more clear headed as today starts and one bit of advice that a few offered was not to leave the house. I've speed read a book on divorce and that seems to be good advice for my circumstances. I'm off to see my girlfriends now so hoping for some 'live' moral support as well as his fantastic virtual support.

OP, I was in a similar situation to this.

Please, before you do anything GO AND SEE A SOLICITOR. He has a business with OW and this has massive implications for so much in your financial future. (My Ex was employing OW in his business). You need advice pronto.

Also, and this might not be conventional advice, but I suggest you get evidence and expose him as a liar and a cheat. That way he will be more likely to move out. The DC's will be on your side and he will hate you bringing it all to a head and will run off to OW to get his wound licked. . You will then have the house and will be in control of the whole divorce. You can then issue proceedings at the pace good for you.

In my case I also knew my Ex was having an affair. I guessed who it was but he denied, denied and eventually I got evidence and he confessed. He was desperate not to be exposed. I told him I wanted a divorce but he wouldnt do anything or agree to tell the Teenage/Adult DC's. He went away for a week. Just before he came "home" I told him I would be telling the DC's that afternoon so that he would not ever be able to say he could not "get in first". I told them, then I told him we did not want him back in the house and left his stuff outside. Job done. He moved straight in with OW even though he pretended he was forking out for a hotel. . That is the bones of it - EA and DV was involved too but that doesnt really influence anything in the practicality other than I was absolutely sure I wanted shot of him and had done for 3 years.

My advice is not rush in to anything. You have the luxury of time and privacy to research, get advice and plan.

Reading through the beginning of the thread I found myself wondering, "what do you want?".