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Original poster

He won't get married

72 replies

alwaysmovinghouse · 13/08/2013 14:35

My partner and I have been together several years, we own a house together and we have a baby DD who we both love dearly.

We both acknowledge that our relationship is good, we are happy together, we need each other and we compliment each other. We have little arguments, but never have huge rows. We are also good at giving each other space, and allowing each other time to fit in some hobbies/exercise around our daughter. We get out together a few times a month, and have a regular sex life.

BUT, my DP has made it very clear that he doesn't want to get married. He thinks his commitment is clear from all of the above, and doesn't see the point. In his mind it is a waste of money, that doesn't make any difference to our relationship. I understand what he is saying, but I'd really really like to get married. For me, it is the final show of commitment, it would be nice for our daughter to have married parents and it would complete me.

Don't get me wrong, I am happy and grateful for everything I have but I would like to get married. I'm not after a big expensive wedding and honeymoon, I just want to be married to the person I love. I don't go on about it to him as I think he'd get irritated in the end (he's said what he thinks!). Is this just something I need to forget about and get over? Am I being demanding? It's playing on my mind...grateful for your thoughts.

OP posts:
Original poster
alwaysmovinghouse · 13/08/2013 15:26

Okay, well no this isn't a 'dealbreaker'. I would not break up a happy relationship over this, and walk away, I find that completely mad.

It is important to me, and I can see now that it makes a legal difference, but it isn't so important I would risk losing my DP over this. If I said 'marry me or I'll leave you' that's just making someone get married who doesn't want to, and I think that's more likely to break us up!

Thanks all for your thoughts and opinions. I feel more doubt towards my relationship now that I ever have before, so I kind of wish I never asked!!

OP posts:
DontmindifIdo · 13/08/2013 15:27

Waxy - no, it isn't a piece of paper that protects you from a relationship breaking down, it is, however, a piece of paper that means should your relationship break down, the lower earner is much better protected financially.

DontmindifIdo · 13/08/2013 15:34

OP - the problem is, if he won't marry you knowing that you want to be married and the costs aren't really that great, then you will always have a doubt that the reason he won't marry you because he wants to keep his options open to leave.

Unfortunately, that means you have to frame any decision about finances, commitment, where you live, the level of debt you can take on etc round the thought "he wants the option to leave, will I cope if he does?" - personally I think you are mad to go 4 days a week unless you are 100% certain doing so won't have a negative effect on your career. I'd make sure you only settle in a home you can afford the mortgage on your own if you had to buy him out, keep a lot of savings in your own name, just in case. (that works both ways, it will mean that it will be easier for you to end your relationship if you want.)

He's not making a legal commitment to you, listen to his actions not words, he's making exiting your relationship as easy as possible. Pay attention to that. He might never do that, but he's reserving the option.

Original poster
alwaysmovinghouse · 13/08/2013 15:39

Why is mad to work 4 days a week?? I want to spend time with my daughter while she is little whether my partner marries me or not.

OP posts:
Phineyj · 13/08/2013 15:39

This is quite interesting (although other research shows one can't prove causation rather than correlation):
www.telegraph.co.uk/women/mother-tongue/10074614/Almost-no-couples-with-children-who-stay-unmarried-stay-together-study-claims.html

I think you should have a frank talk with your DP. At least you could discuss what you would do in various worst case scenarios and start putting the alternative legal provisions in place such as wills and an agreement on how equity in the house would be divided if you split, etc (if you haven't already). The birth of your DC is a good time to re-evaluate.

The poster above made a good point - what are the role models re marriage like in DP's family?

Phineyj · 13/08/2013 15:42

It's not mad to work 4 days a week if you could change back to full time if necessary or if you could cover the mortgage on what you earn alone (as above) and as long as it doesn't mean your employer will think you are less committed. I'm about to do the same (DH isn't keen actually as he thinks I'll work the same hours for less pay) but my employer is skint so it is a win win situation!

Phineyj · 13/08/2013 15:44

I hope...

MerylStrop · 13/08/2013 15:48

OTOH it is unfair to assume that the OP's partner is just a crap commitment-shy bloke.

(My own reluctance to get married was bugger all about making it easier to exit the relationship, more an objection to an antiquated, patriarchal institution, and a genuine feeling - which still endures - that it would make no difference to my commitment to the relationship, or how that relationship works)

OP have you discussed it since having your daughter? Have you talked about the practical concerns as well as how you feel?

Silverfoxballs · 13/08/2013 15:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

quoteunquote · 13/08/2013 15:54

Have you separated the idea of marriage and "a wedding day"

I have in the past seen this distinction make a huge difference to how someone responds to the idea,

If for instants just the two of you were to go to a registry office without telling anyone, and get married, so that it was just an exchange of personal vows between the two of you, would he feel differently about the process.

I have seen this change of expectations as to what the process entails completely chance a person's attitude to the situation.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 13/08/2013 16:07

I would ask him why he does not want to get married and he needs to be completely honest with you. His saying that he's presumably made enough commitment to you already is a copout. But I have to look at your choices made as well, if you wanted marriage why did you buy property and have a child with a chap who does not want marriage in the first place?. I realise you cannot help whom you fall in love with but you are clearly not on the same page here and may never be.

You are in a very vulnerable position legally speaking and you'd be well up the creek if he died suddenly. As it currently stands if he died tomorrow you would not be able to choose a headstone for him, open Letters of administration or receive a widows allowance from the government which stands at around £80 per week (money which could also come in handy). On top of the emotions to deal with you could also be up the creek financially as well. Does he actually realise the legal implications of not being married?. You are in the eyes of the law two separate individuals who are not related to each other. You are not his next of kin, his parents are. How would they act towards you and your DD in the event of his death?. I would hope they would be charitable but I have seen otherwise with families of the deceased.

Men as well as women do walk away from children and property post separation; that is not the ultimate commitment to you as someone else rightly pointed out.

I also read that DM story today and was not altogether surprised that he got married once out of this relationship. This lady to him was the "she will do for now".

AttilaTheMeerkat · 13/08/2013 16:14

I'd like him to sit in front of a Solicitor and come out with the argument that marriage is a piece of paper. He would soon be put straight.

If he was really concerned for your long term welfare and wellbeing he would give this due consideration rather than dismiss it by saying it is just a piece of paper.

FruitSaladIsNotPudding · 13/08/2013 16:45

As the others have said, marriage is not just a piece of paper. If he's prepared to see and pay for a solicitor to sort the legal side of things (wills, next of kin, shared savings and house etc) then ok I suppose. If he's not, why the hell not?

And really, if it's not important to him, but it is to you, would it be so hard for him to do it? I would worry he is ( possibly unconsciously) keeping his options open.

Original poster
alwaysmovinghouse · 13/08/2013 17:47

thanks for all your thoughts. It seems that many of you believe I not properly loved, my dp is keeping the door open to leave me and we are doomed for failure unless I insist on marriage. this makes me really sad, but for now I going to continue in my happy, trusting amd supportive relationship. if he wants to marry me then he will propose in his own time, whether I want to or not, and in the meantime I will ensure things are legally sorted so that my DD is well protected.

OP posts:
sayithowitis · 13/08/2013 18:08

So what is the diffrerence between the 'pieces of paper' that will legally protect your DD and the 'piece of paper' that is a marriage certificate that will not only protect your DD but both you and DP? If it is truly a marriage you want, rather than a wedding, I imagine the cost of both will be fairly similar.

As someone else said, marriage means that if decisions need to be made, such as life support etc, if you are married, you get the say so, if you are not married, it will be your parents or DP parents. As well as being able to choose the headstone. A close friend of the family had been married, divorced and then back with XP to try again. They had been back together for a few years when he was suddenly taken ill and needed urgent hospital treatment which would have saved his life. Because they had not re-married, she was not NOK and the task of signing the consent forms fell to his parents. And because of their religious beliefs, they refused. He died. If they had been married, friend could have signed the form and they could potentially have had many more years together. Do you really want to be in her position?

Original poster
alwaysmovinghouse · 13/08/2013 18:20

thats very sad, of course not. I am not going to force him to marry me though! I think people are very aggressive in their posts sometimes. i asked for thoughts not to be cyber-shouted at!

OP posts:
Lovingfreedom · 13/08/2013 18:25

Why don't you tell him how much you love him, what he means to you and how much you love the family. And then tell him that you want to be with him forever and sound him out on getting married. Tell him you know he might find it silly but it would mean a lot to you and you would be happy with a modest ceremony and celebration. That it would help you feel more secure and you want to show your love and commitment to him and to your DD. I think he'd be unreasonable to say an outright no. But there is no need to be confrontational or aggressive about it. It means a lot to you, can we please get married for legal reasons, for security, for the sake of DD and to show our love?

Original poster
alwaysmovinghouse · 13/08/2013 18:30

Thanks Lovingfreedom, that's a sensible suggestion. He is working away out the country this week so I'll think through a chat along those lines and give it a go when he returns.

OP posts:
sayithowitis · 13/08/2013 18:56

Sorry if you thought I was being aggressive - that really wasn't my intention at all. I just feel so sad for this friend who lost her partner purely because they were not married at the time of his illness.

And I would hate that to happen to anybody else when the solution is so simple.

I wish you luck in your discussions.

Twinklestein · 13/08/2013 21:25

OP - having read through this thread - I think posters are saying one thing & you are hearing another.

The general message from posters is: you and your P need to sit down & go through every single legal & financial implication of your not being married. And you need make legal & financial provision for a whole range of scenarios.

However, you seem to have heard the message as: "I [am] not properly loved, my dp is keeping the door open to leave me and we are doomed for failure"

Given that nobody has said that, I think you may be interpreting posters to be saying what you unconsciously fear.

Ok some posters have questioned his commitment to you, but no-one has said either that he doesn't 'properly' love you or that your relationship is 'doomed'.

I certainly don't get that impression of your P from the story, but I do get the impression of someone who is prioritising his own personal feelings about marriage above the security of his P & child.

Perhaps he's not aware that it could potentially disadvantage him, as, for example, aiui, if your P did not go along to sign the birth register with you, then as an unmarried father, he does not have automatic parental rights.

Personally, I would separate the marriage from the wedding issue. I would keep it rational & focus on the important legalities. That's far important than the issue of whether he actually wants to go through with a ceremony/reception, which, however small, he may not.

Phineyj · 13/08/2013 21:26

I don't think anyone's saying there's anything wrong with your relationship. Your DP may not realise how much it matters to you to be married and may be unaware of the vulnerable position it would leave you and DD in should anything go wrong (I imagine some men do not know this, as it affects women and DC more than men).

However, it is the 21st century, you can ask him.

Phineyj · 13/08/2013 21:27

Sorry, cross post with Twinkle

FruitSaladIsNotPudding · 14/08/2013 07:28

It's not unlikely he doesn't realise not being married leaves you vulnerable. Lots of people do mistakenly think marriage is just a piece of paper.

But if you explain that to him and he's still unwilling, that could be an issue. Only you can decide how much.

Loopytiles · 14/08/2013 07:43

As others have said you need legal advice to put legal and financial protection in place for you and your daughter, especially if you're the lower earner. If your dp loves you he will agree to this.

LisaMed · 14/08/2013 08:07

If you don't get married, then get the legals sorted out - wills, pensions etc (links above). Make sure that should he walk under a bus tomorrow that you and your child would be okay (currently you would be stuffed). At the moment should your dearly beloved die then you could conceivably be barred from the funeral. How do you get on with his family?

Marriage offers shortcuts to things like widows pension etc. Please make sure you get the legals in place to replace that piece of paper. Not shouting, just sayin Then you can stay not married for as long as he is happy about it.

If he is not willing to do the legals then you need to start worrying.