Drifting apart from really nice friends because of the brutal way he treats his children

[bananabreadhead]

I have changed my name for this for personal reasons.

Dp and I are friends with another couple. We were quite close to them. The problem is the way he treats his kids. They have two boys who I must say are very naughty and badly behaved BUT that's life and didn't bother us. But the dad hits them - a lot and in front of us and our daughters. He twists their arms, smacks them round the head and dp has seen him punch one of them.

He is such a nice guy most of the time but obviously we find this behaviour really upsetting. We don't know what to do as it has got to the stage where we avoid seeing him with his children. Dp doesn't want to say anything as he thinks it is none of our business. It is a real dilemma.

if he treats his children like that isnt it possible he also abuses his wife and that she feels unable to protect the children from his actions?? whatever the reasons / causes for his behaviour the parents are adults and their children are powerless and vulnerable. they need his behaviour to stop. you are on notice of their being abused and should take some action. agree nspcc would be good starting point.

You can do something to change this. You feel bad enough about the abuse he already inflicts on his children. How will you feel if one of them ends up seriously hurt? Will he still be a nice guy then, obviously it will be an accident he wouldn't really want to hurt his children would he?

Is he allowed to dislocate his childs shoulder by twisting his arm? Is he OK to break his childs arm?

More or less where is the limit?

Do something now, phone SS, the HV or the NSPCC. Help protect these children from being abused for the rest of their childhood.

Hmm

Also - could you try and help with the kids behaviour - introduce a few of the behaviour management books that we all rave about on mumsnet ?

Can I jsut say, my suggestion was to talk to him/them with SS as a last resort, I htink that is pretty fair and balanced, yes life is complex, however if there are innocents here then you have neglected to mention them and I can only og on the information you are providing.

You could use the story of that poor couple from Norfolk who have had their 4 children taken off them by SS as a starting point for the conversation ! Make them realise what powers SS have and how little evidence they need to remove children from their parents - you could even be really brave and say "You had better watch out - if someone sees the way you treat your boys they might well report you and then you'd be in big trouble !" - might be all it takes - a veiled threat/warning to make him realise what a bully he is being.

Also talk to his wife - is he hitting her ? What does she want to do ?

Seriously - I wouldn't go straight to SS about a friend - we all know what SS can do - and would you wish that on the whole family ?

Totally agree you need to do something - but start subtle and if no result go to SS.

Sound to me like a family in crisis who need help with managing the kids behaviour - and Dad needs help to find non-violent methods of discipline.

Now while I am not for one minute condoning his behaviour, I wonder if you could approach the whole issue as more of a family issue - i.e. family counselling in relation to the childrens' behaviour and then that might in turn deal with the father's bahaviour by default?

Do you know the mother well enough to approach it that way with her?

I really think that you need to contact nspcc or ss, anonymously if that would make you feel better.

Whilst i can see why a "subtle" approach as suggested by other mumsnetters may seem easier I don't think that you could ever be sure that he abuse (because it is abuse) had stopped or if this man had simply modified his behaviour in front of you. If he comes across as a "nice" man to others then he is clearly skilled at presenting an acceptable fron to others already.

How would you feel if one of these children were seriously hurt and you had done nothing? Sorry if that sounds harsh, i understand that rl can be more complicated than mumsnet but ultimately that is the question. I think that in those circumstances I would feel responsible and therefore would have to act now.