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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Cohabitation Queries

29 replies

harman · 10/02/2004 15:38

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Fizog · 10/02/2004 15:41

If it's in relation to Childcare costs then she is correct her wages will be taken into consideration.

He would have to have his names on bills, clothes there etc before they would consider them cohabiting. I'm tlaking CSA now, not sure about other bodies.

sorry it's abrupt - hth!

Tinker · 10/02/2004 15:45

Why would her partner's ex wife be entitled to any of your friend's wages? Puzzled (thinking aloud really)

kaz33 · 10/02/2004 15:46

Sounds rubbish to me.

Why would her partners ex-wife be entitled to part of her wages ? Her partner no doubt pays maintenance to his wife dependent on what he can afford and what the terms of the divorce settlement. If his circumstances change ie: he was living in your house and therefore no longer payed rent then that might affect his ability to pay more maintenance.

Also co-habitation has no legal significance ie: cohabitation does not give you any rights over your partners property. You only gain rights over another persons property by marriage or specific contractal arrangement. Therefore there would not be a legal "co-habbitation" test. I don't know if it could have any other signifcance - social security or divorce settlement. Maybe someone else can advise.

Fizog · 10/02/2004 15:48

Darn, meeting cancelled - can reply in more depth now...

If the ex husband is cohabiting with a new partner (i.e. Harmans friend) and he has children to support from a previous marriage the % that he has to be will be calculated taking into consideration both his and his new partners wages.

kaz33 · 10/02/2004 15:49

Surely the issue is whether he is paying for another property which he uses - then he will be paying rent/bills etc... The fact that then he spends nearly all of his time somewhere else is irrelevant.

That would be logical - not sure if the CSA is logical.

easy · 10/02/2004 15:49

Tinker,

The CSA seems to take all the father's household income into consideration when calculating what a father has to pay over for maintenance.

It's a few years ago now, but the forms we got even counted in my DLA, and that's not counted in for tax, or other benefits as far as I'm aware.

Galaxy · 10/02/2004 15:51

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Tinker · 10/02/2004 15:53

Thanks easy. That sounds such a dodgy principle but can see why they might have to do it (siphoning off of his income into her account)

Fizog · 10/02/2004 15:53

Yes - hang on will write in more depth...

Crunchie · 10/02/2004 15:56

This is true for loads of things. My best friend met a bloke and she was really worried if he moved in that she would no longer get her WFTC (or childcare help) since they went on household income. In the end he asked her to marry him, then suggested she went part-time as they didn't really need the money. But the principle still stood.

Fizog · 10/02/2004 15:58

Assuming we are talking CSA...

This is my experience - xp moved into my house, 'officially' (name on bills etc) though did not actually have his name on the mortgage. Both my salary and his were taken into consideration when maintenance for his first child was calculated... we had to pay out a lot (for us) each month, nearly £400. Bear in mind that we did NOT have a joint bank account and I still had to declare my earnings. If you refuse to declare you earnings (as a partner) the CSA automatically assume that you contribute to 50% of all household outgoings.

You can get round it if you have a spare bedroom by saying that he rents with you - give him a rent book and tell the CSA you charge XXX each week for him to live there. The more you bump up his outgoings the less he'll have to pay his ex (not suggesting you do this, just making a point)

and breath...

harman · 10/02/2004 15:58

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harman · 10/02/2004 16:02

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Fizog · 10/02/2004 16:03

If they jointly earn over £55k she will lose her WFTC

Tinker · 10/02/2004 16:04

I can understadn why it is the case for WFTC IF he is contributing to the household income, ie the cost of bringing up the children. But I don't see why it is the case for the CSA where he is supporting his other children who live elsewhere. Surely that should just be the parnet's income, the new partner has nothing to do with the cost of bringing up that child.

aloha · 10/02/2004 16:05

No, the ex wife is emphatically NOT entitled to any of your friends money. When working out how much a man has to pay there are certain reductions allowed if he is supporting another partner and children, that's all. And a cohabiting (or even a married) partner does NOT have to tell the CSA what she earns. But if she doesn't he won't get the dependant's allowance - if he was entitled to in the first place.

aloha · 10/02/2004 16:16

I've been through this and I promise you this is true. Don't know about WFTC though

kaz33 · 10/02/2004 16:21

Looking at www.csa.gov.uk/newcsaweb/index.asp found this:

"Working Tax Credit will be treated as income where the non-resident parent is the main earner. Where the non-resident parent and his partner have equal earnings 50 per cent of the tax credit will be taken into account as income of the non-resident parent.Child Tax Credit will be taken into account as income of the non-resident parent whether it is paid to the non-resident parent or their partner."

AND:

"Relevant other children
If a non-resident parent has children living with them in their current family, we will use a lower amount of net weekly income in working out child maintenance. This is the non-resident parent?s net income reduced by:

15 per cent if there is one relevant child;

20 per cent for 2 relevant children; and

25 per cent for three or more relevant children.

Example:
Graham and Theresa are divorced with one child who lives with Theresa. Graham lives with his new partner, Paula, and their two children. Graham?s net weekly income is £280. Because he has two children living in his current family, his net weekly income is reduced by 20 per cent (£56) before his child maintenance is worked out. Child maintenance is 15 per cent (because he has to pay for one child) of £224 (£280?£56) which is £34. Graham?s child maintenance is £34 a week. "

As far as I can see if your friends parteer is cohabitating then his income will be taken into account in calculating WFTC.
Your friends DD will entitle him to a deduction on the amount of child maintenance that he will have to pay.

Not clear as to what extent this interacts with the mortgage that he pays on the family house.

Tinker · 10/02/2004 16:27

But in that example, the children in the new partnership are also his.

I started a thread on this a while back, I'll do a link later if I get a chance. If he's not contributing to the the household income in the new relationship, still has to pay rent on his own place, utility bills etc there, I'd put up a very strong argument that he is not co-habiting and this shouldn't affect your friend's WFTC. But, if he has relinquisehd all those other payments then I'd say he was co-habiting.

kaz33 · 10/02/2004 16:36

The exact wording on the website is:

" If a non-resident parent has children living with them in their current family "

That would suggest that it doesn't matter whether they are his children. This must happen all the time and I am sure a quick call to the CSA would clear it up.

Your friend would have to do the figures to see whether they lose money or not.

What would make me nervous is the divorce settlement ? This is going to deal with issues over and beyond child support which is reasonably easy to calculate.
If he gets stuffed by the divorce settlement then although his income might be £X for the purposes of WFTC, by the time he has paid CSA, portion of mortgage etc.. your friends new families income might have been stuffed. Just conjecture, hard to assess without the facts.

turnupthebass · 10/02/2004 16:47

All v complicated and we have wondered about this in the past. In DP's divorce settlement (finances) she had to state clearly that we "were not currently cohabiting, or intending to do so within the next 6 months".

When we queried it we were told by solicitors that if we did intend to cohabit her ex-h would then be able to demand all of my financial info to be assessed as household income etc in the settlement.

kaz33 · 10/02/2004 16:51

My advice would be for your friend to wait until he was divorced before moving in together. Think probably emotionally a better solution as well.

harman · 10/02/2004 16:55

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kaz33 · 10/02/2004 16:56

Is he getting divorced ?

harman · 10/02/2004 16:58

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