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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Husband says I'm not sophisticated

91 replies

BumpkinMe · 05/08/2013 11:27

He was helping DD take a shower yesterday. He is usually quite rough, splashing water on her face when she clearly doesn't like it, and repeatedly soaping her face. He does seem to have a "thing" about being clean.

Yesterday, I could clearly see DD being in distress. She can sometimes exaggerate and moan like a typical 6 year old, but this wasn't one of those times. After me warning him to stop and him not listening, I grab the shower head. He resists. I say "Stand there and I'll show you how to wash her face without her screaming the place down". He says NO and walks away. I see red and grab on to his shirt and don't let go. This tussle goes on for a few seconds. Shit, even writing it down makes me embarrassed.

I shout at him and say "Don't do that to a child. Stop if she doesn't like it. You are wrong to do that" He shouts, "Its only soap and water. And you are unsophisticated." Presumably because I grabbed his shirt. Yes, it wasn't my finest hour.

But next morning, when I try to put the fight behind us, he says he doesn't want to talk to an "unsophisticated low-life" His words exactly.
Is this what he really thinks of me? Haven't spoken to him since. Shell-shocked. And very sad.

How did he make it so personal? About me? I talked about his behaviour. He, on the other hand, is talking about ME. I am so sad.

Sorry for the epic. Just needed an outlet.

OP posts:
DamnDeDoubtance · 05/08/2013 13:03

To be honest eating everything on your plate is awful, surely she can decide how much she wants to eat?

I agree with encouraging kids not to be wasteful but if a plate is finished then surely there was either a) to much but she has stuffed it down or b) to little on the plate.

If he criticizes the way you parent then then that is disrespectful.

DamnDeDoubtance · 05/08/2013 13:05

If you found out tomorrow that he was going away for a month, say on a business trip, what would your first emotion be on hearing this news? Would you be sad or relieved?

BitOutOfPractice · 05/08/2013 13:06

I don't think I need to tell you that you didn't cover yourself in glory here OP. The physical tussle is bad. So is the arguing aout her in front of her :(

But at least you are big enough to admit mistakes and try and make amends. He sounds like an utter nightmare. Controlling and angry and a terrible parent, not a brilliant one as you contend.

This goes deeper than this incident and needs to be addressed. A fact which I suspect will be lost on him

Wuldric · 05/08/2013 13:10

There's a balance to be had. I personally deplore fussiness in children and I don't like adapting to it or catering for it. Children (and adults) should eat proper meals, they should sit at the table politely, they should use their cutlery properly, they should not turn their noses up at their nicely cooked vegetables and they should say please and thank you. To allow them to behave badly is creating not just a rod for your own back, but a rod for everyone else's in later years. I suspect this is where your DH is coming from.

But he's being a bit too rough with it all, and when you lost your temper you lost the argument IYSWIM. You two just need to talk, I reckon.

BitOutOfPractice · 05/08/2013 13:12

And as an aside, I think "you're not sophisticated" is the oddest insult I've ever heard!!

DamnDeDoubtance · 05/08/2013 13:15

OP has tried to talk to him Wuldric but he doesn`t listen and he is always right.

You cannot reason with unreasonable people. I agree she shouldn`t have grabbed him but she clearly flipped when she saw her child distressed because of his actions.

MadBusLady · 05/08/2013 13:17

Have a careful think about your post about her being "away with the fairies" at bathtime. Is that something your DH encouraged you to think? Because as Turnip says, it's not a disaster if she misses the odd bit in the shower. Any more than it's a disaster if she regulates her own appetite and doesn't need all her dinner. These are just natural steps on the path to being an independent person. They're not "tendencies" to be "discouraged".

That poor child is cultivating some magnificent anxiety issues.

Original poster
BumpkinMe · 05/08/2013 13:19

Wuldric you are right. I did say, he was "old school" when it comes to these things. And to a large extent, I do agree with him. But the being rough part grates on me. I would like him to tone it down, but that doesn't look like it will happen any time soon.

Bit I think its because I grabbed his shirt and wouldn't let go. It was so cartoonish and bizarre, me hanging on to his shirt tails and him pulling forward. Yep, that's me, the unsophisticated clown! Grin

OP posts:
Original poster
BumpkinMe · 05/08/2013 13:24

No MadBus, it's not as dire as that Smile. She is a typical 6 year old, very engrossed in her play and stories.

He is a brilliant parent, I stand by that. He is quite protective of DD, spends loads of time playing with her, and he is quite generous, in all senses of the word. Acknowledging her efforts, cheering her on and everything.

But yes, he has certain ideas in his head, that he feels are absolutely sacrosanct. And he will go on doing them again and again, even when he is requested not to. That bit of his behaviour is controlling. I just don't want that controlling behaviour to spill over to other major areas of life. Especially into DD's.

OP posts:
TurnipCake · 05/08/2013 13:30

I just don't want that controlling behaviour to spill over to other major areas of life. Especially into DD's.

It is though, isn't it? What you describe at bath time isn't exactly a little blip in context. He won't take on board you talking to him about it, and it's at the point where you're having rows in front of your daughter. All the good things you mention fade into comparison against a man who rough handles her at bathtime - a time where she's vulnerable, naked and cannot physically defend herself.

As Attila said, do you want your daughter to end up with someone like her father treats her now?

DamnDeDoubtance · 05/08/2013 13:33

Based on what you have told us he isn`t a brilliant parent at all. Where is he now? How long will he give you the silent treatment?

Will you be able to discuss his abusive language, or does that just get swept under the rug.

LEMisdisappointed · 05/08/2013 13:39

you BOTH need to grow up here, your DD is stuck in the middle of this and she will be terrified, believe me, she will. If you can't resolve things, and being called a low-life is pretty unresolvable if you ask me, then you need to think about separate, your DD does not deserve to live in a war zone where she is used as ammunition!

LEMisdisappointed · 05/08/2013 13:41

*separating

Original poster
BumpkinMe · 05/08/2013 13:43

DamnDe he is at work. I wanted to discuss the whole thing the next morning, to tell him why I intervened and that's when I got called a low-life.

I don't know what to do. As Wuldric said upthread, I lost any moral ground when I grabbed his shirt.

OP posts:
tanukiton · 05/08/2013 13:45

he sounds very controlling but could it be that he hasn't realise your dd is growing up? That she can was her own face and clean herself with the flannel? That Your dd can decide for herself how much she wants to eat( within reason). Can,t you have a chat along the lines of I remember when dd couldn't put on her jacket And now she is choosing her own. When she could eat byherself but now She can put her own food on her plate (this might help reduce the 'eat everything on your plate' too.

LEMisdisappointed · 05/08/2013 13:47

Its not about moral high ground - when you talk about him being rough, is it just at showertime? You say he acknowledges efforts and cheers her on - how does he behave if she doesn't do so well at something? Quite frankly, if i were six id be terrified of the man :(

DamnDeDoubtance · 05/08/2013 13:50

This isnt about moral high ground though. you need to evaluate if this is a healthy, balanced relationship. If it isnt then it will be having a negative impact on both you and your daughter.

crazyhead · 05/08/2013 13:55

I am 36 and am still pretty vague about how thoroughly I clean in the shower, and I daresay sometimes I don't finish my dinner. Astonishingly, I am a reasonably well rounded individual and fairly successful. Due to my own shortcomings, I can't imagine hassling my son about these things! I mean, if he goes through his whole life being vague in the shower, who cares?

You should never fight physically in front of your daughter, but all I'd say is that unless your husband holds himself up to the astonishingly high/spurious standards he seems set for your daughter, he is a bit of a hypocrite, and if he isn't prepared to change his ways, you've got a problem here.

Fairylea · 05/08/2013 14:06

Your dd is distressed because her dad is putting soap all over her face and eyes and carrying on doing it despite knowing she is upset .... and your thread is about him calling your unsophisticated?! Really?

It's almost like the way he treats your dd is by and by. To me getting soap in her eyes and letting her cry about it and carrying on is abusive behaviour. It is cruel and unnecessary and you should be asking him to leave unless he can stop being such a bully.

Tortington · 05/08/2013 14:12

at 6 she should be able to shower herself. if she gets out and has missed something, tell her to do it again. she'll get it right eventually.

if you pander to this kind of behaviour with either of them
away with the fairies not an excuse to not be able to shower properly at 6.

the same way as trying to get him to talk to you repeatedly when he has clearly shown that he wishes to weild an emotional power through sulking and namecalling will only feed this.

Original poster
BumpkinMe · 05/08/2013 14:16

LEM he is quite laid-back when she doesn't do something right, or isn't top at school, but gets weirdly competitive about things like her not having lost a tooth. He frets about friends or classmates having already lost three milk teeth. That's why I'm wary of coming right out and saying he is a complete bastard.

Anyway, some very good points here. Will be talking to DH later and if the discussion keeps going round in loops, I know I have to face up to some harsh truths.

Thanks everyone. Very grateful for your kindness.

OP posts:
Potteresque97 · 05/08/2013 14:20

Re the clearing plates at dinner, dh may want to research that, there's a daily fail article on links to eating disorders from that which certainly is related to my experience.

captainmummy · 05/08/2013 14:49

He does sound like a bully. 'Old school'? Does that mean that as she gets older and starts defying him it'll be smacking? Or worse?

Forget about the 'moral high ground' - you were defending your dd.

You both need to set some rules - definitely about parenting, and also about how you settle differences.

unsophisticated? How weird.

daytoday · 05/08/2013 14:53

No, main carer doesn't get the monopoly to dictate things their way every time. Its good for kids to do things differently with dad / gran etc. You might be giving clear signals for your daughter to dislike how dad does things. It would be very easy for me to give these signals to my kids - to undermine my husband. Especially at bath time and bedtime when everyone is tired.

daytoday · 05/08/2013 14:56

Sorry, cut out too soon. I get the impression that there is a battle going on between you both about control in the family?

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