exH email about contact with dd - WWYD

[ChangingWoman]

I've posted previously about alcoholic exH's contact with DD:
www.mumsnet.com/.../a1801726-Email-to-alcoholic-exH-re-child-contact- click-send

www.mumsnet.com/.../a1800916-How-to-reply-to-email-from-SIL

www.mumsnet.com/.../a1797656-Why-cant-daddy-stay-for-sleepover-How-to-stop-exH-manipulating-4yo

A few weeks ago I sent him an email setting out conditions for contact for DD (incorporating wise suggestions from Cogito and other MNers).

No response from exH for weeks. I only know he's actually read it because I copied it to SIL and she has spoken to both of us since, and because he hasn't since turned up to see DD or phoned. (He also hasn't paid child maintenance this month but that's another story.)

Then he sends me this email yesterday:

Hi XXXXX,

I'd like to ask whether you would like me to visit this weekend? I have spoken to [SIL] and she is unavailable, but I could still come down on Saturday or Sunday, if that is acceptable for you.

If you would like me to come this weekend, I promise to be presentable and sober. If you don't want me to come, then I fully understand.

Regards,

XXXX

There's a lot about this that irritates me (e.g shouldn't he be thinking in terms of contact with DD not whether I want to see him) but I'm just focusing on the factual content and request. I have a family friend coming on Sunday who knows all about exH and probably would oversee contact with DD for a few hours. But we were looking forward to seeing each other, she is thinking of moving to our town and I was going to show her some of the different areas and transport routes.

At the same time, DD is missing her dad. Sadly for a 4yo, she already knows that daddy has a problem with drinking and this means he can't look after her properly at the moment. I told her that Mummy told daddy to go away and stop drinking so much beer and get washed and put proper clothes on. She agreed with me that he needed to do all these things, and accepts that we both still love her, but she is so clearly sad when she comes across photos of him or stories about daddies playing with their children.

I could arrange for him to see DD for a couple of hours in a local park tomorrow with a family friend overseeing (if indeed he does turn up sober and clean). Not sure I want to though, or that it would be the best thing for DD.

He also tried to call last night when we were having dinner but I haven't called back.

What should I do?

You should facilitate her seeing her daddy.... That's all that's important here

Can they Skype mid week also perhaps?

agree with hey ^

Soulsister: Sure, important in principle, and most important in many cases, but not the only thing that's important given our circumstances.

It's rather more complicated as DD's dad is an alcoholic who has said and done things which aren't in her best interests.

In this case it would be morally wrong to facilitate contact without planning carefully and ensuring that my DD is safe and happy.

ExH doesn't Skype.

he's said he wont be drinking and you have got someone to supervise.....what more do you need?

As much as i'm totally against putting a child in a situation where they're exposed to destructive environments, I think that a small chance needs to be offered to your Ex.

You have a friend coming, you know she's supportive, so you could offer, say, an hour in a park, as a trial run.

That way it'd be convenient and not too prolonged for him either.

If it passes off successfully then it can be repeated.

If you block every visit, what's he got to motivate him?

Could you not investigate the use of a contact centre, make it slightly formal, and then remove the need for you to be constantly running around making plans for others to supervise?

Thanks for the replies. Helps me to think when I'm out of mental energy. ExH phoned earlier today and it turns out he doesn't want to visit at same time as family friend so that rules out tomorrow.

He will probably come to town with SIL and BIL the following weekend and DD can see him with them.

Should have said at the start, I have no desire to block access for its own sake. I certainly would do so if I believed it was in DD's interests, but my strong preference was originally for a civil and flexible arrangement that allowed as much access as possible. It has become obvious that this is impossible with an increasingly dysfunctional alcoholic. The state of him is described on other threads. (This isn't a man who has one drink too many on a Friday night and I'm not a vindictive ex trying to keep him from his child. I've done a great deal over the last few years to try and support a positive relationship between them but he is now going downhill.)

Giant: Yes, I'm in the middle of trying to work out and put in place an arrangement that will take me out of the equation as much as possible. I think it may come to a contact centre. Wish now that I could have done that from the start but had never even heard of them until a couple of years ago.

Soul: What more do I need? Things that I can't have, unfortunately. A cure for alcoholism and defence against all the attendant lies and manipulation that go with it would be nice.

That letter seems well thought out, polite and humble. He's not saying 'when do you want to see me' he's saying whether you'd like to visit, and when is acceptable.

Obviously from the past threads he's been manipulative but this really doesn't look like that. Give him a chance for the sake of DD

I'd ring the national association of child contact centres, find the one nearest you and direct ex there to make arrangement to have contact with DD.

Personally I would not trust an alcoholic as far as I could throw him, his humble and polite email means nothing unless he's in AA & stone cold sober.

If you want to remove yourself as much as possible from his contact shenanigans then a contact centre is the way to go. It makes things formal and transparent.

His, I'll do whatever you want e-mails are designed to make him look compliant and you controlling. Disengage from this twat, he shouldn't need telling that showing up drunk and disorderly is not ok.

The contact centre is a way for him to take responsibility and demonstrate his commitment to contact.

He is a manipulative and abusive twat and manipulative twats need an audience. Every time you try to accommodate him and his contact whims you enable him to continue in not prioritising his daughter and provide him with another opportunity to manipulate you. Step back, contact happens at a contact centre or not at all. Actions speak louder than words, if he can demonstrate a commitment to being with his daughter the maybe you can be more flexible.

Right now your'e not being flexible, your'e being manipulated.

" his humble and polite email means nothing unless he's in AA & stone cold sober"

"Every time you try to accommodate him and his contact whims you enable him to continue in not prioritising his daughter"

"Right now your'e not being flexible, your'e being manipulated."

These are all things that are in my mind. I've been lied to far, far too often to accept anything at face value and my generous instincts are rather worn out. I've been very busy at work in the past 6 months and not sleeping well either. I'm possibly not thinking as clearly as I'd like at the moment.

Has anyone else used a contact centre? Do you need to be referred by a court / social worker or can you just approach them directly?

I've used contact centres.

I called the NACCC myself they gave me a list of contact centres in my area. I picked a couple rang them up and forwarded details of the one I wanted to use to ex's solicitors.

Some contact centres expect referral thro a solicitor, some will take private referrals.

Before contact takes place you visit the contact centre take a look around & have a chat with the contact centre supervisor at which point be sure & notify them of any safeguarding issues ie he's an abusive, controlling alcoholic.

I used to arrive 15 early (actually much more earlier as i didn't want to bump into him) to the contact centre, wait in the waiting room while contact took place & I'd leave 15 minutes before ex so we theoretically did not see each other.