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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Do the grounds for divorce impact on the children?

16 replies

PumpUpMyVolume · 01/08/2013 20:47

H has decided he's divorcing me on grounds of unreasonable behaviour. The letter states this is the only option open to him, it's not designed to antagonise the situation (we separated 7 months ago). So, kind of want it over and its just a way for it to go through, i guess - which we both want. i obviously don't agree - think it might have had more to do with his new gf - but it would mean I'm shot of him.

HOWEVER, we are also going to start mediation to sort out finances & children and i am worried that if i let him file re unreasonable behaviour then that will make them see him as the better parent and i may lose my children Sad

I am going to get a solicitor in the morning - will do some research tonight - and once i have the grounds from his solicitor, i will take them for professional advice but am absolutely terrified...

Anyone been in this situation?? What did you do!

OP posts:
Dahlen · 01/08/2013 21:15

Unless you want to wait two years for a no-fault divorce, one of you will have to lay blame. I'm assuming it's him because he wants it sooner and is the one paying for it. You could say you'd file and go for it on grounds of adultery, or you could even contest it and counter-claim.

A lot depends on how much this means to you. Only the courts will see the grounds for divorce. No one else. The only people who will know will be the legal professionals, yourselves and whoever you decide to tell. It won't mean anything in terms of residency arrangements or such.

Personally, I wouldn't give a damn, but that depends on how likely your STBXH is to try to use his divorce grounds to poison your children against you.

Joy5 · 01/08/2013 21:18

My ex left me, totally his decision, then a few weeks later told me he'd just met someone else, although i later found out he'd been seeing her for months.

He decided he was divorcing me on my unreasonable behaviour a few months later, then spent the next six months emailing me telling me he was filing papers then and had terrible reasons as proof. I worried myself silly what those reasons could be, i'd never been given a reason for him ending our marriage after nearly 30 years, was so upset i'd done something terrible and never realised. When he eventually filed papers, his reasons were so feeble i smiled when i first read them. That was until i remembered they were the complete opposite of what happened at the time he was referring too, and i had emails showing that.

I was so angry he could divorce me on lies, i spent money on seeing a solicitor. She told me it would cost me so much more money to challenge the reasons he'd put, the marriage would still be over, and i'd still end up divorced. Much as it upset me at the time to do it, i signed the papers and returned them. Made the decision if he wanted to file divorce papers on lies and end such a long marriage, it just showed what a fool he was. Sure the only reason he filed in the end, was because he didn't want me to file on his adultary and name his girlfriend, and it lessened his guilt to be able to say he had to divorce me and it was my fault! Except he was openly flaunting his girlfriend by then in the local pubs, and shops, so local gossip was he'd left me for someone else anyway!

We tried mediation six months after he moved out, but it didn't work, mainly because my ex thought he could persuade the mediator to do things his way ie so he could pay the least amount of maintenance. Now we're doing it through solicitors, costing him a fortune sending me so many legal letters, but i won't accept less then we're entitled too, i earn too little to do that.

At mediation the reason for the divorce didn't come into it, its just about the finances and children, so the reason won't even be mentioned unless you or your ex bring it up.

Your children don't ever have to see the reasons for the divorce, when they grow up if they ever ask why, you can tell them the truth, can say their Dad filed for divorce on lies if you want. Myself, i've got a copy of the reasons for divorce, its in a folder along with print outs of the emails showing the reasons are not true, along with emails from me asking my ex why our marriage ended, and his refusal to say why. The day might come, when my sons ask for the reasons, i'll have the reason to show, meanwhile when they've asked why i've said the truth Dad never told me why, but they're old enough to have worked it out, it was because Dad got a girlfriend.

Don't be terrified, my solicitor is lovely, yours probably will be too, they'lll be on your side, and will explain everything to you. If nothing else, focus on the hundreds of pounds you ex will have to pay to file divorce papers even if he doesn't use a solicitor himself, wouldn't you much rather spend that money on your children having a nice time with you, taking photos you can look back on in future, rather then just a piece of paper saying you've got a divorce but on lies. Every time something reminds me about my divorce, i look at the photos i took last summer, i'm glad i spent that money on those memories and not filing divorce papers! :)

Hope you're meeting tomorrow goes ok x

Doozle06 · 01/08/2013 21:39

As far as I remember, the grounds has no bearing on anything to do with the kids, residency, access or maintenance. Good luck.

BerkshireMum · 01/08/2013 21:58

The definition of unreasonable is also entirely subjective in divorce - one person's unreasonable behaviour is another person's heaven. I know it's tough but, unless the reasons he's citing are truly outrageous and libellous, I'd be tempted to run with it just to get closure sooner.

Adultery and unreasonable behaviour are the only grounds to get a divorce quicker than two years. It sounds like he's tried to explain - more than many do! If he is being broadly fair and his other proposals (about money, DC etc) are reasonable then this might be an occasion to take it at face value. However, do not compromise on the other stuff without being satisfied yourself and having taken proper legal advice.

PumpUpMyVolume · 01/08/2013 22:16

Thank you so much. I think i can live with the lies if it means him paying and it all being finished.

I was just worried that it would then be used in mediation for me not to have my children living with me... i have absolutely no issues with contact but just can't bear the thought of them growing up without me.. DS is only 1 Sad

It's just so sad to think that 8 months ago, i was happily married!

OP posts:
Overtheraenbow · 01/08/2013 22:17

There will also be a part that states you disagree with the reasons but agree the marriage has broken down irretrievably. My ex ticked this box ( even though all the facts within we're true) so it works both ways.

He was all set to counter sue/ object stamp his feet like Rumplestiltskin etc. I told him that was fine if he wanted to pay . His sol. told him to STFU and just sign it Grin

PumpUpMyVolume · 01/08/2013 22:18

The letter was from a solicitor - when we talk it's not great, hence why i think mediation could work.

OP posts:
Overtheraenbow · 01/08/2013 22:20

It's hard when you look back a year ago and think 'how did that happen?"'it's been almost a year since I left and only now do I not wake shaking and feeling sad every time I look at my kids ((hugs))

PumpUpMyVolume · 01/08/2013 22:23

That's interesting about saying you disagree but still let them file.. as this is basically what i think will happen. I want to be divorced from him (although i have no issue with waiting 2 years) and to an extent, don't care what he says - although am sure it will hurt like hell.

Thank you - you have really eased my mind

OP posts:
Joy5 · 01/08/2013 22:33

Don't worry about your children living away from you, it was something else my ex threatened for months to me.

If you've been the primary carer, then you'll remain the primary carer no matter how much your ex shouts or threatens the opposite.

Once they reach secondary school age, they'll be asked if the need arises, who they want to live with.

My ex threatened to go for custody, even after our middle son was 18, shows what a state i was in due to months of his anger and threats, that i believed him at the time.

Please don't believe anything your ex says about custody. Its just a weapon they use, that they know will cause the maximum amount of pain to you, nearly two years on, and having read endless cases on MNs of unfaithful exes, seems to quite common for exes who have been unfaithful to threaten to take the children away too, even when they have absolutely no chance of it happening legally. Seems they want to pass the guilt they feel for their actions, onto the innocent party, and don't care what lies they tell, or how stupid they look when the truth emerges. Having been in your position, and still there when it comes to sorting the finances out, with an ex who will tell endless lies if he thinks it will help him pay less mantenance, you have as much sympathy as i can send you x

PumpUpMyVolume · 01/08/2013 22:50

Thanks Joy... although up until he left, H was the primary carer (sahd) which is why i am panicking - not that he still is, clearly, but he is still not working which i worry is in his favour...

it's not that i don't want him to be involved - i do. I just don't think it's in the children's best interests to live with him...

argh - i just don't know who's right anymore Sad I guess i just wanted to know that we start with a clean slate at mediation point!

OP posts:
JohFlow · 01/08/2013 23:20

In my experience Mediation are all about finding ways forward. You are allowed to state your disagreements but they will never let it degenerate into a slanging match. In fact many mediaton services have an agreement that you sign to say that you are there to make agreements about future matters and not apportion blame for past behaviour. They are trained to be judgement free and divorce happens because of disagreements on both sides. It only works if both if you are committed to finding ways forward. Unfortunately my ex tried to sabotage the sessions so we had to draw a line under it and address the courts instead.

A judge will also take a similar stand to the mediator and stop any lines of questioning/commentary that is deliberately meant to rile the other party.

If you can provide practical evidence of how you are a good mother then these shine through any talk of 'unreasonable behaviour'. Keep any examples of nastiness from the ex (should you have to play 'hard ball' later).

I hope he doesn't give you too much of a hard time. But if he does try; some early boundaries about behaviour and what you want from him as a person and a father may help.

Good Luck

PumpUpMyVolume · 02/08/2013 08:19

That's really reassuring - he has changed so much since he left, and not for the better unfortunately. I have been keeping a record of sorts and have a few examples which i think (hope) show that i am doing all i can and more to help my kids through this period... am sure he will too.

But i would like to think that for the sake of our kids, we can get something sorted!

Right - I'm going on a solicitor hunt...

OP posts:
YvyB · 02/08/2013 08:56

Don't panic. When my exh divorced me (he went off with an 18 yr old he met online when I was 5 months pregnant with ds) he cited my unreasonable behaviour as 1) I didnt understand his level of grief when our dd died (wtf?! I was her mother!) and 2) I hadnt gone on a holiday with him that year (er, no, that was because I was hospitalized for most of it as dd had died unexpectedly and ds was diagnosed with a heart problem when I was about 12 wks pregnant). My main concern was that the court would throw the petition out as the grounds were so ridiculous (although exh was convinced it showed what a truly repulsive person I was!). I made the pragmatic decision not to contest (was on mat leave so no money) and it really has made no difference to my life at all. Ds has always lived with me and on the one occasion exh took me to court to challenge contact arrangements I represented myself, the judge threw out his application and made him apologise to me publicly in the court. I promise you, the grounds for my divorce have had absolutely no impact on my parenting rights at all.

Joy5 · 02/08/2013 10:14

YyvB - sending hugs, thought my ex was bad enough, but yours is on a different level. What is it about grief that makes men behave so badly ( i speak as the mum of an 18 year old who died in his sleep from a disease we didn't know he had, and whose ex started bereavement therapy 2 1/2 years later, to decide there he was madly in love with someone else he now lives with). And well done for representating yourself in court, i'm starting to realise i might end up there as my ex is refusing to agree reasonable maintenance.

PumpupmyVolume, just wanted to add about child care access, my solicitor told me to keep a diary of the times my ex saw our two younger sons, then if he had tried legally challenging contact i would have a record of what had happened in the past. My ex never did, despite threatening too for six months, but i believed all that time he would, but we've settle into a routine where he rarely sees our sons for more then 4/5 hours a week, sometimes he doesn't even see them for over a week. I just think now, his loss my gain, i'll make the most of the time i have with them. xx

YvyB · 02/08/2013 10:39

Thanks Joy. I don't miss him at all! Don't be intimidated about representing yourself. If I'd realised how simple it was I'd have done it for the financial hearing too. If your requests are reasonable and you've nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about. My ex took a rottweiler, I mean solicitor, to represent him and he made such an idiot of himself she intervened on my behalf in the end just to shut him up!

So sorry to hear about your son. Don't know what it is with men and death. It's almost like they throw a huge tantrum cos they can't accept they werent in control. Hope you manage to resolve your situation soon.

Despite making such a performace of dd's death and then trying to grandstand in court over contact with ds, we havent seen him for 3 1/2 yrs now. Seems to be very common. They make all sorts of threats at the beginning but the "commitments" they promise don't seem to last long. Mind you, if they were so good at commitment, they probably wouldnt walk out on their families, would they? ;)

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