Contact - wwyd?

[Miniph]

To give a little background:

I split with my abusive ex about 11 years ago when my dd was 2. She's now coming up for 14.

Over that period he's had sporadic phone contact (maybe 4 times a year?) and visited once for an afternoon when she was about 5. The past 2 years he's also seen her once a year for an afternoon. He lives in Eire and we're in England so it's a long trip but not the other side of the world.

Ex's mother comes over to see dd once a year and has since she was little.

My dilemma is this:

Ex phoned and said he'd be visiting again with his mum in Oct. Dd says she doesn't want to see him. Up until this point I've encouraged her to speak to him and to see him when he has visited. Now I'm wondering if at 14 it should be her choice?

The problem is that 1) if she doesn't see him she won't see her Nana either and that would be a shame for both of them (there's no way ex will agree to meeting his mum but not him) and 2) It'll cause lots of hassle and I will no doubt be blamed for him not getting to see dd (selfish).

The other minor thing is he doesn't / never has paid anything towards her care but does send some birthday / Christmas money with his Mum - so if she doesn't go she may well miss out on that, which would also be a shame because she deserves something from him.

So, do I remind her it's only one afternoon and drag her there (not literally - she'll go with minimal sulking) or do I respect her wishes given her age and deal with the fall out (stupid that 10 years later I'm still scared of pissing him off ).

Thanks for reading, sorry if it got a bit long! Apologise also if there's a better place for this but I lurk in relationships a lot and know there's a lot of wisdom here.

It's a difficult one but given her age perhaps she should get to have some say. I believe a court would listen to a child's wishes at this age so why wouldn't a parent I guess. I would spend some time with her and find out the reasons behind why she doesn't want contact. Remind her that her decision will impact on her for the rest of her life if she chooses now to sever all contact. Would she be happy if he was absent from life events is graduation, wedding children and I suppose if she has thought it through and you believe she is a 'sensible' 14 I would go with her wishes. If she is not and her reasons are 'cant be bothered' you may have to rethink approach. I hope you can work it out

At 14, surely she is old enough to make a choice.

If this were being determined in court, they would go with her wishes at this age.

Remind her that her decision will impact on her for the rest of her life if she chooses now to sever all contact.

I don't think it's a good idea to frame it as "You have to decide to either see your father now or never see him again." That's way too black and white for such a complex situation.

I agree that this needs to be discussed and I would definitely make the point about deciding not to see her father would also mean that she won't be seeing her Nana. But I would clearly couch it in terms of "You can make this decision but you can also change your mind later. I'll back you up whatever you decide to do."

My cousin was in this situation with her father. A couple of phone calls, annual visit, gift a Christmas. Her monther encouraged contact with the father. As my cousin got older she got a little more awkward and didn't want to go out on visits with her Dad. So it was decided that she could take somebody with her on the visits. She usually took me, I was 6 years older than her. At about 14, its a bit of a peak time for teenage feelings.I suspect your ex-MIL knows this and I going st the same time to ensure that your DD doesnt get one without the other.
See how she feels about maybe taking a friend.
If she really doesn't want to do it and gives you a reason why, I'd be listening to her.

Respect your daughter's wishes.

It is not actually up to him if his mum sees dd without him, or not. If the nan wants to and your daughter does, then that is a possibility.

But above all I would put respect for your daughter and her wishes before your fear of pissing off your ex.

Thank you.

I have talked it through with her a bit and her reasoning is that she doesn't really know him and that she feels awkward having to spend time with him. She feels like he's pretty much a stranger who she has nothing in common with / nothing to talk about.

I can understand her point of view but I worry that if she didn't go see him then there's no way that situation would improve.

I know she'd be sad not to see her Nana (but not devastated) and I think it would be very sad if she totally cut off contact with that side of her family.

I think really I want to encourage her to go but I don't want her to feel forced into seeing her Dad when she doesn't want to - which I fear could make what relationship she has with him worse.

I don't know how ex would react if she said she didn't want to see him, it is a concern that he'd totally cut contact as a result and I'm not sure she's old enough to consider the long term consequences. I don't even know if I should discuss that possibility with her because (again) I don't want her to feel forced by an ultimatum.

She's reasonably mature and capable of considering things but maybe the impact of this decision is too much?

Taking a friend is a good idea - I always go with her (at her request) but maybe she'd feel less awkward if she had someone her age there.

I will of course put her wishes above my worries about the fall out, it's not my main concern at all but it is something that might well colour my view of the situation, which is why I mentioned it.

where do they do contact?

if it is meeting in a cafe or park it could feel quite intense.

if it was an activity based thing, such as bowling, there would be a natural conversation point which might make things a bit more relaxed.

Yup, agree with TeenandTween. When I'd go with my cousin it was always activity based. Bowling is a great one and it will be fun for the friend if she brings one. They can get snacks together and focus on the score and engage as much as they want with the adults. Hey-he's visiting his teenage daughter. Thats what they're like at this age.

Contact always involves them taking her shopping to buy birthday / Christmas gifts with the money they bring. That in itself is quite high pressure because they won't say how much she has to spend just insist she choose things and she finds it stressful - not wanting to ask for too much.

My strategy for that has usually been to discuss what she'd actually like for her birthday before we go and help her make a list. We guess the likely budget from previous experience and then work within that. So when they ask where she wants to go / what she wants to buy she's got an answer and I can back her up / make the suggestions for her if she's not feeling confident enough to do it herself. (Otherwise she ends up with random crap she doesn't really want or need).

It's awkward and doesn't help the situation but both ex and his mum insist on this way of doing it.

I'll suggest the possibility of doing something more activity based to DD to see if that would help. I doubt ex will like it but maybe if it's that or not see her then they'll agree.

Thanks again for the responses, it's really helpful.

Other activity suggestions:
Ice skating, Go-Ape (though perhaps not in October), Snow-Dome, theme park or similar.

I think it is quite reasonable to have your DD say what she would like to do for her contact afternoon/day. If she doesn't want to do shopping (in such a stressful way too), then she shouldn't have to.

Really they should be sending money for b-day / christmas at the appropriate time, then letting her spend it at her leisure and she sends a photo of what she has bought.

Would you be able to talk to ex or his mum about this? Perhaps then you could explain to them that she feels awkward about choosing present, and about the whole outing. Could you suggest to them that they ask her if she'd like a friend to go and all go bowling together?

Possibly, ex refuses to speak to me a lot of the time (he'll get his Mum to call so he doesn't accidentally speak to me) but I can speak to his Mum.

He won't just send money it has to be him or his Mum buying things - I don't really know why.

I think if I insist on doing something like bowling etc. they'll go along with it but will have issues if they don't get to do 'their' thing (shopping) too.

I'll talk it over with DD again and see what she thinks. If she agrees it would be better / more comfortable for her then I'll bring it up with ex's Mum.

I have tried to explain to them previously that she finds the shopping trips stressful but maybe I should have been more insistent.

It was annoying when it was just with her Nana but I think the addition of her Dad into the mix plus age has made it much more awkward.

I think they just don't get it somehow, it just doesn't sink in that although they're trying to do something nice 'buying her things' it's actually making the situation worse and it's really difficult to get them to understand.

I think if I frame it with 'dd would really like to do xyz instead of shopping and was hoping to bring a friend' it might be ok (dependant of course on dd's thoughts). I'll see what she thinks about no gifts vs no shopping and then negotiate that with ex's Mum - maybe arrange the day so there's not a lot of shopping time but enough she can get something if there's anything she particularly wants.

What age is this "man"? Sulking, avoiding all contact with you? Everything through his mother? The curse of the 'Irish Mammy'! (I'm Irish).

It's not HIS day out.

I'd go with your idea of telling The Mammy that your daughter wants to do xyz with a friend because she is a bit unsure of the shopping trip. Rather than explain to your DD that it's either the shopping trip or no gifts, explain to his mother, it's either xyz activity or no contact.

Ha Mixxy, he is supposedly a grown up (35) but yes, very childish in behavior. If we could all act like adults it would make life much easier but have to make the best of a bad situation.

I meant I'd see how dd felt about shopping - if she wanted to / would be willing to still include some or not at all (which I know will likely depend on if there's something she'd particularly like to buy). So I know what I'm offering to ex / mammy before I bring it up.

Dd is the most important person to me in this, which is why I was trying to work out what would be best for her.

I think I'd accidentally made it very black and white, go or don't and somehow failed to consider 'go but make it better'. Possibly that's because I got very used to my way or nothing from my ex and forgot that actually I can demand a change.

Thank you all again.

She's 14, and given the circumstances I would have made the same decision, her reasons for not seeing him are valid. I would support her and her decision and let her know that relationships are two way streets and if nobody, her father included, are allowed to unilaterally dictate the terms of a relationship. She has an opinion and if he won't listen and negotiate the terms of their relationship, she has the right to say no thank you. He can't have minimal contact and then expect her to jump to attention just because its convenient to him, bloody cheek.

She is not responsible for the poor relationship she has with her father
and if her gran lets her fuckwit son dictate who she can and can not see then thats her choice, not your daughters responsibility.

I think it very mature for a 14 year old to refuse to engage with him just because he dangles the prospect of presents in front of her.

You and his mother seem to have fallen into the appeasement trap when it comes to him and thankfully your DD hasn't, I applaud her and you should be very proud.