Constantly arguing/ communication problems (very long, sorry)

[MillyMollyMandy78]

I have been with my husband for nine years, married for four. He is a lovely, kind man and i love him very much. I know he loves me too and we get on well and have a laugh together when we are not arguing. Unfortunately we argue a LOT! Every tiny little bicker ends up in a full scale, nasty arguement which goes on and on. It is ridiculous - any little niggle escalates into a full scale battle.

Egs from the last week: asking me at the checkout to get some jam, him wanting lounge curtain closed during the day which makes the room really dark and dingy cos he apparently gets sunburnt through windows (first I've heard), telling me that i am obviously in a mood from the tome I said something in (happens a lot, but not in a mood and no tone - when I AM in a mood it is very clear), him 'forgetting' things he has said during an arguement ten minutes before and saying I didn't say that when i know he did (he does have a bad memory but think he embellishes this a lot, and deliberately gaslights at times). He also does not 'hear' me frequently (very selective hearing and tunes out of conversations frequently) eg he will walk out of a room with me chatting in mid-sentence and then is unable to hear the rest of what i say, ignore me and focus on the tv/ computer game.

I know we are both frustrated at times and take it out on each other, but i don't know how to improve things. I have tried. Only three days ago we decided we would stop things from escalating and come back to them when calmer. The day after during the row about jam, i asked to come back to things later three times, but each time he refused and said there was no need and continued to say his piece.

We are both a bit controlling and like the last word. We also both talk over each other a lot. However, because i am quietly spoken he can talk for ages without being able to make myself heard above his naturally louder voice. Inevitably i get frustrated and start shouting to make myself heard. By this point i am very angry and upset, particularly when i am being misunderstood and not able to put my view across. I then completely ovreact and have on occasions thrown somethng against a wall, blocked his way, pushed him or threatened to hit him etc. completely disgusting behaviour i know.

Neither of us are deliberately meant but i feel that i have tried to improve things a lot and feel dismissed because DH doesn't 'feel things are that bad', so finds it hard to get on board with things.

Otherwise, We don't have kids and i do pretty much all of the housework which i think is fair because i only work part time and he works full time and earns almost all the money. However, he is naturally messy and i get upset when he leaves things strewn all over or expects me to pick up after him. Proper conversations are unusual - goes from monologs to grunts and attitude. Although he is trying hard to improve this, it is still fairly common for him to come home say hello, sit infront of the tv/ ipad while i make dinner, eat dinner and grunt a thank you as i take his plate away, all without even looking at me.

These issues go back years and go round in cycles, with one or both of us trying and things improving then slipping back again when we become more relaxed. I love him a lot but our relationship is such hard work in these down cycles.

We haven't had sex regularly for years - only every 2-3 months on average. He doesn't seem that bothered but a lot of it comes from me. We just don't bother. We even sleep inseperate rooms - started out cos of my insomnia, his snoring etc as i couldn't sleep and was affecting me. I am 35 years old!

Our daily life: comes home from work, tv/ ipad, bed. Then on weekends, mostly tv, plus walk dogs and maybe once a month do something eg cinema, meal out etc.

I no this looks awful written down, and in some ways it is, but on the other hand we arre both fairly nice people who love each other. Would be really interested in everyone's thoughts. If things don't change for good, i am thinking maybe a trial seperation may be the way forward but i really don't want to go down that road unless necessary.

He grunts at you and expects you to wait on him hand and foot and pick up his detritus simply because he works more hours than you?

Well yeah, but that's MY view! He says that he was gonna do it/ doesn't expect me to do it, but then my arguement is who else is going to do it? Part of the problem is i get stressed/ feel down if the house is messy and cluttered but the mess doesn't bother him.

He tells me off for moaning - which i do! Or tells me that everything has to be my way or sulks and swears before reluctantly doing whatever i have asked. On one hand it is true that if the house is tidy/ clean then i am getting my way, but i don't see it that way and think it is unfair to live down to his standards.

I think you really, really need to read this book

"We are both a bit controlling and like the last word. We also both talk over each other a lot. However, because i am quietly spoken he can talk for ages without being able to make myself heard above his naturally louder voice. Inevitably i get frustrated and start shouting to make myself heard. By this point i am very angry and upset, particularly when i am being misunderstood and not able to put my view across. I then completely ovreact and have on occasions thrown somethng against a wall, blocked his way, pushed him or threatened to hit him etc. completely disgusting behaviour i know."

I had a relationship a bit like this at one point - I never pushed him or threatened to hit him but the rest of what you say - yes we were like that. Never like that with other men - just that one in particular. I think sometimes people manage to have relationships with others but when you put them together it just doesn't work. And you say this has been a pattern for years - so even if you both want to make changes it will be terribly hard as you will probably both at times fall back on arguing etc - and does he actually really want to change? Sounds like you may well do but not getting that feeling about him from what you say. Like losing weight or giving up smoking - you have to want to do it - no point if your spouse or whoever wants you to and you need to make permanent changes to be successful otherwise most people resume the overeating or the ciggies and may repeat the pattern over again. Same with making changes in relationships. And if a bloke spoke to me the way your dh did or had selective hearing then I wouldn't want to sleep with him. The thing I found with my ex is that we both became very rude to each other and I am not a rude person and didn't like who I became with him. Also it is very stressful all the time arguing or walking on eggshells - horrible atmosphere, unable to relax.
Not sure I have helped you but do understand and wish you all the best xx

it is still fairly common for him to come home say hello, sit in front of the tv/ ipad while i make dinner, eat dinner and grunt a thank you as i take his plate away, all without even looking at me.

We haven't had sex regularly for years

You don't even have DC and you're living life like some downtrodden housewife. You're more a domestic appliance than you are wife.

I'm not remotely surprised that you're frustrated to the point of lashing out, and unless you're evenly matched physically I suspect that he's not remotely afraid of you (or he'd be doing what you wanted), which doesn't make this classically abusive. However, your behaviour is unacceptable. You know that. The longer you continue in this the more frustrated you'll get until that one day you go too far and actually hurt him. Then you will be an abuser. And despite his provocation, it will be your fault because you chose to stay and allow it to reach that point.

You need to change this or get out. Please read the book.

I think you sound fundamentally incompatible. There are some people who are OK apart and profess 'love' for each other, but together they are like sandpaper, constantly chafing. I can't see how a relationship characterised by zero intimacy, zero affection and 24/7 rowing over trivia like jam and lounge curtains (?) has any future whatsoever. BIG mistake to designate yourself sole housekeeper... might as well have 'WELCOME' embroidered into your forehead.

One definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome. Maybe you could look at couples counselling but I think you sound too entrenched to change for the better.

It really doesn't sound good at all.
What exactly do you love about this man?
No sex. Hardly ever do anything together. Argue all the time. No team-work at all.
I really don't get it.
Next time you want to argue with him, don't engage - just walk away - get the dogs and go for a walk.
Really examine what is good in this relationship because I couldn't live like this for the next 40 years. Is that what you want?
Because it won't get any better from what you say.

Ok some really interesting replies thank you. There are many home truths here, just wish my DH could see how bad things really are and work with me on this (long term rather than just for a few days/ weeks).

Hellsbells - u ask why i still love him. That should be simple but I struggle to answer. He can be funny and kind - he would never set out to hurt anyone. In truth, i think I love him because he was the opposite of my abusive, alcoholic ex. I left my previous relationship with my confidence in tatters and he made me feel good about myself... I tend to look on the bright side as much as poss, and on one of our good days i focus on this rather than the way he makes me feel now... Not valued, taken for granted, insignificant and disrespected. I also struggle to seperate the good from the bad... We are either one or the other... Today for example has been a good day so far. We work together and I enjoy being round him then - most people we know would be shocked to read my original message. We are much more relaxed and happy around people (less lonely, away from mess/ responsibilities, he uses his 'kind voice', we banter and he is much more attentive). This is why i love him, because in these situations we click and feel really happy together... Then the next day it can be complete shit... Almost like he is two different people, but he refuses to see that he behaves any differently.

Brunette - this is exactly it! I have said to him before I hate who I am when I am with him. I have become rude, abusive, name-calling, negative, angry. I have always been quite moody at times, but now I am naggy, judgemental and resentful. I feel I have become my 'worse self' with him, so I can understand some of what he is feeling because I am not a nice person to be around when i am like this. I feel angry at him for not being able to be myself around him. For years, the only time I can truly relax is when He isn't around.

I am also glad that people have picked up on the reasons for the lack of sex. There are other factors at play (due to violent and abusive past, confidence, weight gain etc), but mostly it is because I feel uncomfortable around him, particularly at my most vulnerable. I don't trust him not to let me down or make me feel like a nuisance/ skivvy. He doesn't see the link between just sitting watching tv (on seperate sofas, i might add), or not being a team player, or listening to me, and the fact that I find the idea of sex completely offputting. It make me feel used and dirty - i feel uncomfortable having sex with someone who I don't consider to be a partner in life. I need that connection in order to be able to have a more physical connection. Plus, it just feels weird when there is hardly any other physicsl contact - no cuddles on the sofa, does not always kiss hello/ goodbye, and if he does, he will often offer his cheek for me to kiss (seriously, WTF!!?).

Cognito - i have seen you on several threads before, and you always offer sound advice. I agree with everything you say, if this was anyone else, i would tell them to leave, but I am trapped here in this situation, and there are several practicalities that make it very difficult for me if I were to go.

Hence, wanting to make it work - i don't feel like I have much choice other than to try absolutely everything. I have tried pulling hm up on his behaviour/ not saying anything/ writing letters explaining how I feel/ small practical things to help round the house/ counting my blessings eg atitude diary/ being proactive in setting up quality time together/ spending more time away from him. I have triend removing myself from the situation during an arguement eg going for a drive, walking the dogs but it is not always practical - he will often start an arguement in the car and I am then trspped. He refuses to read books that might help and has refused counselling in the past when i have mentioned it - he says we don't need it. We just need to try a bit harder! So, I don't know what else to do... I personally think that without him changing his view on things and treating us as a priority, there IS nothing else I can do.

Dahlen - DH will never agree to read a self-help book, but is it really useful? I dont really want to focus on the housework stuff - it's more the way he treats/ speaks to me in general that I have an issue with. Does the book just centre on housework type issues? Is it worth me reading on my own?

I have recently gone NC with my abusive mother and a lot of the stuff I have been reading about FOG actually applies here... Why don't I leave? Fear: financially unable to live on my own, of having a second divorce, of not being able to keep my two dogs who I love so much. Obligation: a duty to stay in my marriage, feeling obliged to stay after he picked up the pieces of my crushed confidence. Guilt/ shame: of a second failed marriage, of making a mistake being with him, of not making this work, that my husband treats me like i am worthless and that maybe that is true, of who i have become and my own terrible behaviour.

Milly the book is for you to read, not your DH. I assumed he wouldn't even consider the idea TBH. I think it will help you understand your feelings and help you put it into words that your DH will find far less easy to ignore.

"In truth, i think I love him because he was the opposite of my abusive, alcoholic ex."

Almost anyone would be better than an alcoholic, abusive man. Never confuse the absence of harm with kindness. But there are other ways of experiencing abuse, including the sort of behaviour that is 'bantering' one day and shouting, criticising, accusing you of being in a mood and withdrawing affection the next. That's called 'emotional abuse' or 'psychological bullying' and it's designed to crush your self-esteem in order to keep you under control... which is what's happening if your reaction is anything to go by. Trapped through insecurity, fear and because you believe (wrongly) that you owe him something and that you are worthless.

You are anything but worthless but you believe it's true because that's what he's told you.

Oh God OP I am reading your posts and i know exactly what you are talking about, especially vis a vis no intimacy, no connection, separate sofas, tv and ipad evenings etc.

I have 5dc with my dh, so i will do all i can to make it work. You have tried/are trying and your dh seems particularly resistant to change.

Would you consider a trial separation? Would this be the one thing that might make your dh wake up and really take your problems/issues seriously?

We have had a long chat tonight (sitting on the same sofa too!) and told him some of feedback on tthis post. He doesn't seem to have realised how bad i view things so seems to be taking things more seriously. A few things have improved in the past so he IS capable of change when he sets his mind to it. Only time will tell i guess, but i have discussed maybe a trial seperation if things don't improve. He really doesn't want that so fingers crossed... He is a good man, but we are both prone to being a bit self-centred at times. Maybe now he sees how i really view things, we can be happier?! On the surface we have a great life: nice house and cars, no financial worries - hopefully we can finally begin to build the marriage to match.

Do you think it is possible to build on this? That this is a bit of a wake up call for him? Can people actually change for the better?

Yes I do believe that people can change if they want to. Especially if the problems boil down to selfishness, as selfishness can be changed, unlearned, if you like, when necessity dictates it. If your dh realises he could lose you, this could be the spur he needs. If he is basically a good person, and it seems from what you say that he is, then there is definitely hope.

Of course people can change for the better. Many do. However, most do not - or more accurately they make a short-lived change that they cannot sustain. Only time will tell in this regard. Remember that actions speak louder than words.

Yeah i know you are right about actions speaking louder than words. I am so confused a lot of the time, because when we are good, we are really good. Our first date lasted for over 10 hours because we just didn't want to say goodbye. We just chatted and enjoyed each others company. On good days, everything feels so natural and easy.

But then on the bad days, we are everything i would never want in a relationship. They are awful and seem to suck me dry. Part of me thinks we both have issues and have got into some terrible habits, but i'm left uncertain of what we really have and who we really are. Are we this lovely couple who just have bad days, or are we completely mismatched but manage to have some good times? My view of our marriage can change almost daily sometimes and its draining. I wish i knew what to think!

It's normal to have peaks and troughs in any relationship. My personal line in the sand, however, is that if you're spending most of your time analysing the relationship, it sure as hell isn't healthy.