Please help – need advice re my difficult mother

[RadishRobin]

Namechanged for this but I am a regular.

Background: I have always had a difficult relationship with my mother. After a bout of depression a few years ago I realised that my problems with low self esteem were largely due to her parenting. She is manipulative, all sweetness one minute, scathing and bitchy another. She tries to play one person against another. She loves drama and attention. She has many narcissistic traits.

Since I?ve had my children, she has been worse. She criticises my parenting and tries to undermine me with the children. Due to this I try to limit how much and how often we see her.

Yesterday, she came over for a few hours. I was determined to be nice, although I can never fully relax with her in case she ?bites?. We had a good time, and then she left. That evening at tea time I commented to my DC that we had ?had a nice time with Grandma?. DS then said, actually, Grandma had said a funny thing to him.

When we arrived home from the shops, she had taken him to one side and said to him, ?Sorry your Mum shouted at you just now. She was wrong?. Neither DS nor I could remember me shouting at him, though since then I?ve thought about it and realised I told off him and his brother as we were getting into the car because they were winding each other up. Mum couldn?t hear the whole conversation.

It bugs me that she is trying to undermine me by telling my son that my discipline is ?wrong?. (a) it isn?t ? DS couldn?t even remember being told off and (b) if she was genuinely concerned why didn?t she speak to me herself. I think she is trying to build a close relationship with my son to exclude me.

She has a long history of doing this with other family members. A couple of years ago she tried to do exactly the same thing to us ? told DS I was horrible to him and favoured his brother. When I spoke to her about it she flipped, had a massive tantrum and hung up on me. Then she emailed my DH to tell him I am a horrible person, she doesn?t know why he puts up with me, she can?t deal with me anymore, I am a bad mother and having a bad influence on our DC. He dealt with it very well, was very calm and backed me up. We then went through a phase of not seeing each other.

Back to today ? should I say something to her, remind her that I don?t appreciate her telling my DC I am wrong behind my back, or should I just let it go?

She keeps pushing to see my DC more alone, I am very uncomfortable with this also due to my own childhood experiences? how do I say no without angering her?

If you've read this far, thanks! Any thoughts?

Just say no, and don't worry about angering her. If she choses to take offence, it's her issue not yours.

My mother doesn't have unsupervised access to my DC, but she inevitably contrives to get DC by themselves at some point - even simply reading a book gives her an opportunity to whisper something, or present a fait accompli like "we are just going to the park, bye" so I have to say no and be seen as the trouble maker by refusing, or let them.

I find it hard because I have been conditioned not to upset her, because if it was physical or sexual abuse there would be a clear line (perhaps?) - with emotional abuse it feels more difficult. Because I worry it's me reacting to history, in isolation That Comment wouldn't mean anything etc etc.

Thanks Frisky, from your post I see you understand where I'm coming from. Sorry you have to deal with this kind of thing too. What you describe about your Mum only needing a moment to whisper something - yes, I relate to that. Mine is always looking for an opportunity to make me the 'baddie' so that she can be wonderful Grandma.

It is hard to just say no though. I feel I have to give a reason why not and I'm frightened of her reaction.

Do you think I should speak to her about what she said yesterday? Or am I making a mountain out of a molehill?

I would raise it with her, and definitely not let her be alone with them. If she challenges you, instead of trying to come up with a reason why not, make HER give YOU a reason why you can't be there too.

Also, just to put your mind at ease a bit - her actions (although completely unacceptable) probably won't have much effect on your DC. My grandma did this sort of thing when I was growing up and even though I was very young, I knew there was something not right about how she was behaving - it certainly didn't make me side with her over my parents. The fact that your DS told you about it means he knows this too.

Just to add - if you DON'T raise the issue with her, she might think she's got away with it and is more likely to do it again in future. If you do raise it, it might not stop her but it at least sends a message that your DC are confiding in you about her behaviour and you're not prepared to tolerate it.

Thanks Viking. Again, sorry to hear you also have a difficult mother. That is awful that she managed to affect your DD... so horrible that she tries to turn her against you. In fact that is exactly my fear.

Yes, triangulation is right. That is what she has done my whole life and is trying to do now with my son. Exactly the sort of thing your mum has done with your nieces. Hope your brother and SIL can stop her doing that.

You're right that if we speak to her she'll have a fit - well that is what she did last time. I just don't want our summer holidays being ruined by another of her strops. I think she'll either deny it (ie. blame DS - 'he must have misunderstood') or blame me 'well you are too harsh on him'. She will speak to everyone else in the family about it too.

She's already had the dreadful medical emergency this year! To be fair she was genuinely very ill but didn't stop dramatics from her bed as soon as she began to recover.

I have a narcissistic mother too (Isn't it an arse!). You are in control here and you are right to set your own boundaries. I would not give her much attention for her bad behaviour but just state that you are aware of what she has said, find it unacceptable and if it continues you will have to make a decision about her visits.

x-post as I was making lunch!

Thanks Sondosia for the grandchild's perspective. You're right that my DS, like you as a child, is already aware that Grandma is a bit odd. And that in itself is the best thing about this situation - he spotted her and told us about it.

And yes, your second post is exactly why my DH thinks we should raise it with her.

JohFlow yes it is an arse! You're exactly right that she'll revel in the drama of attention for bad behaviour...

watching with interest, have a similar other...will try to post later. xx

a similar mother

Really empathise with you all as my dm is the same. I posted on the stately thread about her last visit to us and the lies she was telling my dc about how i said she wasn't allowed to come etc.

Fortunately my dc are now of an age to understand that granny tells lies to make mummy look bad, but it still means i cannot relax when she is around them as you never know what Will be said.

thanks. Whilst it is good to know that other people understand how I feel, I'm sorry that you all also have to deal with it.

We haven't said anything to Mum yet. We are due to see her again soon and I am dreading it.

It is probably worth teaching your children that we don't keep secrets, and that if Grandma tries to whisper things to them or tell them things that you are not supposed to hear, they should just repeat it very loudly or come straight to you and repeat it.

How often do you see her? And can you cut right down? For the next visit, someone could be suddenly ill, maybe. And then just back off. Don't arrange visits yourself, be vague and non-committal when she tries to. Then when you do see her, make it at her house with something else arranged afterwards - i.e. a nice short visit. Or arrange to go for a day out with her (and possibly other family members too - dilute her a bit).

Also, if she "has a fit" - what does she do, exactly? Do you have caller id? You don't have to answer the phone to her. If you are talking to her on the phone and she is being awful, you can hang up. You can delete her emails unread if you like. I know she is your mum and probably makes you feel 5 years old inside, but you are allowed to be 'rude' to her. You are. Its allowed. You're allowed to do things that make her angry. Your feelings are just as important as hers.

How does having a relationship with her benefit you and your children? Are there good points?