When 'help' is not wanted

[Mrchip]

Hi

My inlaws are retired and have lots of spare time. Soon they will be providing 2 days a week childcare for 3 out of 4 weeks (my parents to do other) so need to be involved in our lives.

However, when they visit (on a weekly basis) they can't help looking for jobs to do in our home. It drives me mad as they have no boundaries.

I think I might be oversensitive/some may find it helpful so would welcome thoughts.

Latest example:-
We were going on holiday and grass needed doing. Offered to do it when away. Said no as previously binned things in garden we wanted etc etc. Continued to offer and said what if just did grass and hedge.
Eventually said ok but not to be a regular thing as are adults!
Came back- also dug out a tree (that was prob dying) moved some pots and emptied bird box. Kindly left nest for DC to see but it's actually illegal to empty till Autumn anyway as birds reuse and I'd have liked DC to help investigate.

MIL constantly offering to do washing. She acknowledged that I'm a private person and would rather do own but offers again and again. As compromise I washed all stuff pre holiday and asked her to do DH's shirts and some towels.

Came back she'd taken my pile of clean clothes and ironed everything. Then put DC away and ours in our room (again i dont think she should go in here) My pants stacked neatly on bed next to a pile of DH's I was mortified.
I never iron anyway and she knows this. The stuff she was meant to take was clearly in 2 black bags so she helped herself. No idea if she ironed it in my house or carried back to hers but it makes me cringe
She also cleaned kitchen sink and put new cloths/scourers under sink.

I feel invaded/bulldozed but it is meant to be 'help' and many might be grateful?! I think I'll need to have a blanket 'no thanks' policy?

My parents do the exact same thing when I travel on business and they babysit which is fairly regularly. I've come home before now to find trees felled, a loft-ladder installed and various things put out for charity bags lovingly Wombled and making a reappearance. My Dad's attempts at DIY are pretty terrible and I've had to un-bodge quite a few things down the years. It's only recently I've discovered that my DM uses my bed when I'm not here... not that I mind but I'd have changed the sheets if I'd known!!! I've asked them to call me before they make decisions but without much success. I rationalise it that they're doing me a big favour and no-one died. Would probably feel differently if they weren't my actual relatives.

So not much help I'm afraid, just some empathy...

What does your DH think of his parents?.

Your DH needs to tackle his parents here on this issue because they are completely disregarding your instructions here. It also shows a lack of respect towards you as a couple, they certainly have no boundaries and you are certainly going to have to raise your own boundaries a lot higher than they currently are.

Who suggested they provide childcare originally?. Are they really capable of doing this at all?. What if they disregard your own pre-set boundaries with regards to your children?.

The retirement aspect stands out a bit. I suspect they both feel like spare parts, and have a powerful need to be needed.

It also looks as if they think they are helping you, but they are disrespecting your boundaries. As if they know better than you what you want! I can see why you feel bulldozed.

My thoughts are that they need to be channelled into doing something you WOULD find helpful. Can you think of anything? This might relieve it a little.

If this doesn't work, and they persist in meddling, that would be the point I'd have a word.

Send her to my house?

Send her to my house?

I knew some would find helpful!

I did try a conpromise hence letting her do towels/shirts. However, whatever I offer never seems enough.
I don't like feeling like our lives are there hobby. They do act like they know best eg FIL likes watching birds hence him removing nest. However, I bought DS a bird table for Christmas and with a book/google anyone can be an expert! Just pissed me off that their nosiness caused them to check birdbox- it's like they forget it's our house!

Atilla there are issues with childcare so DC also doing 1 day nursery. This may soon be upped to 2- we'll see how he settles.
They come in day when DH at work so not to eat into weekends. This has made it easier to stand ground re DC (MIL acted 'Mum' in her house). However, it has also opened our lives to scrutiny.

DH understands but is fairly non confrontational. How do you raise boundaries (seriously)?

Their hobby

When they visit are you actually present or do they let themselves in with a key?

Both of you have to present a united front with regards to such difficult people and I daresay they will not at all like being challenged. Your DH has had a lifetime of such conditioning from his parents and thus regards his parents behaviour as perhaps "normal".

You have a serious problem on your hands; these people cannot be at all trusted not to interfere with the internal workings of your home. They are basically implying that the two of you are somehow incapable of running your own household properly. They could well also see you and your home as an extension of their own selves.

When parents are disrespectful of their children's boundaries and violate them, the message given is that they don't value the child as a person. That message becomes internalized as "I am not of value. I am not worthy." When parents don't acknowledge children's boundaries, the message they give is "You are here to meet my needs," and/or "I am more important than you," and/or "It is not okay to be your own person with individual feelings, desires, or needs."

OP ... there is a way around this that might just work for all of you. I suspect your MIL is offering to do things she thinks will be helpful, and keeps offering because she really really does want to help you.
That's actually a nice thing.
The problem is that the things she thinks will help just irritate you, so why not actually think of things that you would be really happy to have help with..... or have done for you.
"I am OK with being on top of the washing, but it would be brilliant if you could do the kitchen floor/ clean the shower/ dust the garage!! .....whatever" ..... just give the woman a job.
She will be in seventh heaven, feeling that she is being properly supportive ....and you lose a chore you hate (come on, we all have something we would rather not do?!?!)

Best solutions are the win/win variety

Just about to do nursery run so will be back more fully.
No don't have a spare key as previously had in last house and I hated it. Had key when we were away so could use toilet/make drink.
I regretted it as soon as handed over this time as had told self to just say no thanks. However, I felt silly/awkward when the grass obv needed doing and they have spare time.

When here usually I'm here but I often do arrange visits to suit me eg if I need to pop into work/Dr (my own family are too far).

Atilla will re-read your post before response

Just quickly MMgran
I tried that. When discussing 'help' she said 'I'm born for this'!! I said we are prpb similar then as I've always wanted my own family. I do not need parenting.

I have tried to let them help but they always do more snd don't realise it's not there place. Before we moved in here they looked round and told me what I'd need to do to make kid proof!
They told my patents they didn't need to help us move as they had it all in hand.

I think it comes from a place of love but it is too much/patronising/interfering. I also think it fills a void for them.

Just quickly MMgran
I tried that. When discussing 'help' she said 'I'm born for this'!! I said we are prpb similar then as I've always wanted my own family. I do not need parenting.

I have tried to let them help but they always do more snd don't realise it's not there place. Before we moved in here they looked round and told me what I'd need to do to make kid proof!
They told my patents they didn't need to help us move as they had it all in hand.

I think it comes from a place of love but it is too much/patronising/interfering. I also think it fills a void for them.

Atilla interesting points. DH is their youngest child and we both agree that treat us as if we are still children.
I'll be seeing them alone this week. Would you bring up garden things/ laundry or just play differently from now?

I know it's not the end of the world but I just can't imagine sorting MILs underwear or moving things in their garden!

Not much advice but lots of sympathy. Actually, although I sympathise, I'm also rather glad there are others like me out there.

My MIL has also rootled through our washbasket, washed, dried and ironed everything (including some of my more dubious knickers), cleaned the kitchen, lined my cutlery up like soldiers in their cutlery tray... the list goes on. She and PIL fiddle about in the garden, even going so far as to plant some begonias (which I hate, although they didn't know that) in a flowerbed I'd earmarked for roses.

DH's answer to Knickergate was 'But my mother's a woman! She knows all about what knickers look like! My sister is a woman!'.

I don't care what gender she is, I don't want her doing my laundry. Ever. So now I lock the bedroom door when we're away (because they always 'pop round to check everything's ok', even if we've expressly said not to). No access to laundry basket.

I don't know what the answer is to the rest. To my mind, it's unwelcome interference. To DH and the PILs, it's being ever-so-kind-and-thoughtful and it would be dreadfully rude to say anything. Maybe next time they go away I could go and rearrange their furniture or something...

You would not do such things anyway because you are at heart reasonable. They are clearly not; they sound self absorbed and selfish.

They do indeed treat you like you were children, their son is still seen as a child by them and both of you are seen by them as not "capable" even though you are doing fine.

Your DH is the youngest sibling, are his other siblings treated also like this?. How do they get along with these people?.

Its not acceptable at all to be dictated to like this and your DH certainly needs to tell them (although he may well not like the idea as he could well be afraid of them as well as still seeking their tacit approval). I doubt very much though that they will listen to let alone take any notice of any further instructions to not move or rearrange items in your house. They see you and your house as an extension of them and their lives. If this is really the case, then you are going to have to completely reassess your own relationship with them.

Do you have to see them alone this week, this may not actually be a
good idea. Whose idea was this anyway to meet up?.

I would read "Children of the Self Absorbed" written by Nina W Brown.

That's what I can't decide if it's old fashioned live in each other's pockets almost cultural or just that they are very self absorbed.

They do not take a hint. They ignore instructions regularly. Eg DC on toilet (likes privacy aged 3). Hear MIL approaching. Say loudly 'its ok DC we'll leave you in peace'. She doesn't stop repeat phrase. She doesn't stop say 'MIL I'll sort him when he's finished' she doesn't stop, say 'MIL I said I'll do it' she finally listened.

I'd feel bloody rude saying things the way I think they'd hear.

Shodan totally agree re it being seen as helpful. To me her sorted my underwear doesn't match with the fact she knows I'm a private person. In fact I had a home birth and when she arrived to collect DC in middle of night I heard her ask if she should go up!!! Who would want to intrude on a labouring woman!

Atilla it was my idea as I need to have a return to work meeting and my parents are on holiday.

It's not being nice if they know you don't want them to do it but do it anyway. It's like their desire to do something overrides your desire for them not to, even though it's your thing and your house.

I'm kind of territorial and would probably have bitten her by now.

I think its probably more about control than help.
If if was help, they'd accept no thanks and when help is accepted, they'd do what you needed doin.
Instead, they domwhat h0they think should be done.
Ironing. You don't, clearly they feel you should, so they do it.
Gardening, istead of just cutting the grass, they put the garden how they feel it ought to be.
Etc etc etc

I don't thing this has got anything at all to do with a desire to help you.

Many years ago, my dads parents let themselves into his brothers house when he and his wife were on holiday and they REDECORATED TO THEIR TASTE!

They also hit the roof when my dad bought a car because he didn't get his dad to go with him to choose it.

They used to call what they were doing 'help' too...

I had this very same problem with both sets of parents/in-laws and sympathise very much. Both the women seem to have suffered (now it's 30 years down the line) from having 'helper complexes' - they were validating their own self-worth in retirement by 'helping' us - even though we didn't need/want it. It was very hard to keep them at arms' length. They did a lot of very good and valuable childcare, which was great because the DCs got close to them and formed relationships with them and we got some free time, but we could have done without all the 'housie' interference because we wanted to do it in our own way - even if we messed it all up (in their eyes). They regarded us as extensions of themselves - both women turn out to be narcs (as I now understand it). My advice is to keep them out of your home except for special occasions, but let the DCs be looked after by them in their own homes - then they can forge good relationships with each other and enjoy being grandparents/grandkids without you being there all the time (provided basics are done the way you want). You need to be very firm with them and they must learn to respect you as adults. The mistake I made was being too 'polite' and letting them walk all over me. Good luck.

I don't care for people who override your wishes when stated so explicitly, or who don't hear the word 'no'.

If your child wants to be left in peace in the loo, he should be. It's plain wrong to disregard two people's wishes like this, and you absolutely are not rude to insist on what you need.

When it comes to boundaries, never fear being rude...

I don't think your ILs are being helpful, now I've seen the rest of your posts - they are being an intrusive pain in the neck!

How about calling a meeting with DH to decide how to tackle it. Would that help?

I think I do worry about being rude or embarrassing them......but I was embarrassed to find my black lacey pants and White primark pregnancy bloomers (kept as comfy!) in a neat pile!

Thanks all for thoughts

oh, I'll be back...

not very helpful...... but do you fancy sending them my way. My garden needs a good going over and I hate ironing!!

On a more helpful note (hopefully) biting the bullet and asking something along the lines of 'did you mean to be rude and do xx' and 'did you not understand when I said xxx'

It'll be bloody hard and bloody awkward, but at least you'll make your point!

I did not use the word narcissist earlier but narcissists do regard their offspring and their own lives as extensions of their own selves.

This is not a cultural issue and this is at heart about power and control. These people are basically self absorbed and lack any empathy and will also happily disregard any boundaries you set.

What ideally do you want to come out of such a meeting with the ILs?. I would start thinking about obtaining another means of childcare.