Guiltripping me...

[Hanbury]

Hi all, been lurking here as DH and I have been having problems and I cant work out if its my fault, his, or both. I have been thinking he might be EA, but I might be too... I'm not perfect by any means.

I have a specific example that's confusing me. When we discussed this he made out there's something wrong with me not understanding that this is how things work in a relationship, and to be fair I dont have many examples to draw on as I have divorced parents and this is my longest relationship...

Here goes:

I have to go away for work occasionally, and very rarely I go to social things and both mean that DH has to look after our DC. Every time he makes comments about me abandoning them both or says "poor DC" or "poor family". These comments make me feel wretched because I already feel bad every single day I drop of DC to childcare so I can do my postgrad.

This happened again on the weekend as I am going to a family thing today and staying overnight. This time I called him on it and previous times, and he admitted that he was guilt tripping me. He explained that he does it to make me feel bad as when people feel guilty they make an effort to do nice things (and I never do nice things for him...). He also insinuated (we were in public) that he expects sexual things in return. We are having problems in this area...

I asked how this works the other way round when he goes away for work and he said of course he feels guilty (I never ever make such comments and dont think he should feel guilty) and that he does nice things for me all the time (not sexual) and these include making sure one of the grandparents come up and stay with me to help out with DC. And he thinks I dont seem guilty for going away and I should :(

This conversation turned into an argument as I just cant see this as normal behaviour: making your other half feel bad to get something in return. He sees it as normal, and played out in films, telly etc. He didnt say it, but he generally implies that I am socially inept and dont understand normal couple behavior. But this CANT be normal can it?

I'm still going away, but I dread every single upcoming work/social thing now. Even more than I already did. I've long dreaded asking him if I can go because almost everytime he does this "woe is me, we are abandoned" thing :(

Help please?

Sorry OP to add to chorus of bleak replies but agree some sort of arrested emotional development is going on here. I am not convinced I'd relax entirely leaving your children in their dad's care if he has some warped idea of you owing him for what most married parents manage to sort out quite amicably. Even more so if he is already calling DS names. .

(Btw I'm not sure how his parents' lives excuse any of his odd ideas - his dad may have resented missed dreams when DH's mother got pregnant, it may be family legend but he does realise she didn't "get pregnant young" single-handed...?).

I think his reaction to your hurt over the banal manipulation was sadly telling. He doesn't like you developing to the stage of outstripping him earnings-wise so keeps you on your toes alternately 'spoiling' you or finding fault. Nice things we do for our spouses aren't always easy to define or number. He is keeping a tally you may not recognise. Does he downplay your achievements to others?

When you are on the launch pad for a glittering career he will very possibly jump ship as far as employment goes and if you question this he'll remind you what you owe him. Be prepared for a backlash.

Hello all,

I've come back to this thread and reread all the comments. We've since had several arguments (surprise) with him again telling me they are my fault and that I am hypersensitive, snappy and negative. After one of them he did say he would go see a counsellor to talk about HIS negativity and I was really pleased....

But I followed up on this recently and he denies ever saying it, and what use would counselling be anyway (he sees the root of his negativity to be his constant back problems which therapy cant fix). I have agreed to go to my uni's free counselling service as I do need some objective feedback and I need to know if I AM hypersensitive and snappy or if his behaviour is unreasonable. He says he cant talk to me because I am so snappy and childish, and that NO ONE can talk to me because of it. As he almost never sees me talking to anyone else I cant see how he comes to this conclusion!

As an example, this morning's argument. He (to my mind) criticised me because I had used ALL the tippee cups in one day and he does ALL the washing up. I corrected this, I used two out of four, and the third was one he had used the other day and left in DS's room (and I do some washing up). My correction was me 'snapping at him' in his view: in my view I cant stand up for myself, it seems like I just have to agree with him or I am told I am snapping. A really trivial cause of an argument but bound up with so many of our issues (him: hyper-critical, me: hyper-defensive?). In my view life is too short to bring up every little bit of housework we do or dont do. Yes, he does more house stuff than me, but I do all the childcare when DS is not at the childminder (apart from some play time and baths every other day that DH does) and do as much round the house as I can (I am out of the house working full time four days a week, which he calls my 'hobby'!).

I am also going away next week for work... and so far no guilt tripping.

Anyway, not sure what I am looking for from MN. Lots of useful comments before, but I suppose I am another of those people who arent sure what the best action is.

I have just read your whole thread, and although I usually lurk, I feel the need to comment as your situation sounds very similar to mine until we separated a year ago. I too felt confused when communicating with my ex, was accused of being abusive and a bad partner, and although my ex didn't guilt me out as blatantly as your partner seems to, I used to always be left with the feeling I was slightly lacking in something and hard-hearted as I didn't love him enough.

I agonised for some time over what to do, was it me with the problem / was it him? and agreed to go to individual counselling to "fix" my multiple problems and negative personality traits that were making our relationship so bad. I only had five sessions, but I walked out of the last one knowing for sure it was him with the major problem not me, and within a month had finished the relationship. I would recommend going for counselling to get some outside perspective on this, as you sound too ingrained in the whole negative relationship to be able to pick your way out easily and see the truth of what is happening on your own. I would also recommend the Support for those in emotionally abusive relationships thread for support.

Oh, and as an aside, I think anyone calling my dcs names would be a dealbreaker on it's own.

Good luck

Keep a diary. Write down events as they happen, along with how they make you feel. In a similiar situation, I found it really hard to hang on to details of arguments - it's as if my brain didn't want to keep the information. Look at the pattern that emerges. Ask yourself is this is what you want your dc's childhood memories to consist of.

And seconding babyseal's advice about individual counselling (NOT joint counselling).

He is gaslighting you ("he denied ever saying it") and he is creating spaghetti head mess. Trade marks of a manipulator aka Twisted bastard!

Come over to the EA support thread and read some of the links and have a virtual drink in the Vixens pub. It will help you see more clearly!

Thanks, I've been reading the EA support thread and a lot of it chimes scarily.

I really dont know where I am at at the moment. But I know I am very keen on talking to a counsellor and thats either for confirmation that I am not mad, or that I am so desperate to talk to someone about this. I have no friends... I was going to type 'here' but I basically dont have ANY friends I could talk to about our problems.

Thanks for the responses... will be around here or the EA thread.

Oh and LemonDrizzled, he claims the pain meds he was on at the time might have made him say that he would go see a counsellor...

that is priceless!
Not that he might have agreed it and the pain meds make him forget??
I'm surprised we haven't had that as an excuse for all sorts of bad behaviour already on here.

You see - the first step is to step back and watch him like an anthropologist and observe his behaviour. Try not to get drawn in too quickly but note what you see. That helps delay the spaghetti head a little.
Can you tell I lived with a Twisted Bastard too?

Hanbury you wrote this upthread:

^I do call him on the negative things he says about me, and he'll say that he cant be that bad because who would stay with someone like that. But I think a lot of women do...

They do stay, then they start to wake up, then they make plans, then they leave. (Or they don't wake up, or they put up with misery )

You are starting to wake up. Take your time, gently now...