is there ever an excuse for pushing your wife when she ia holding your newborn...

[s0fedup]

Just that really
huge row, pushing, shoving, hands round my throat, i threw the babies bottle at him which has cut his nose then the final push backwards onto the bed

You want to believe he's not an abuser yet....

That line has already been crossed. Many times.

He attacked you as you held your baby, he risked your newborn baby's life - what else does he have to do for you to think he is an abuser, a bad man?!

This behaviour HAS turned into abuse - it IS abuse. It is not only abuse, but his behaviour contained two of the most terrifying red flags for professionals who deal with abuse; hands around neck and attack of mother holding child.

You are in the fog. You want things to go back to something that probably never was in the first place, only in the same place it is now; your hopes and dreams. It is too late to risk your Dc's lives and wellbeing whilst you fantasise that it can be stopped or whatever, because there is a simple truth about abuse that victims struggle to see: if abuse could be stopped, it would never happen in the first place. This is not up to you, or the counsellor or anyone. It is up to him. He CHOSE to do this to you. He WANTED to do it to you, despite what protestations and promises and apologies he might be spinning you now (any remorse is actually because he is sad that HE is in a bad situation now, not you or the baby). He BELIEVES he has the right to do this to you.

It has already started. It will get worse, not better. That is a statistical impossibility. You can tell yourself that it can and will, but that means you will keep your Dc in a home with a man who is prepared to risk their lives to hurt their mother. This will destroy them, ruin their futures, train them to be abusers or victims themselves. You stay, you collude in the abuse of them, it's as simple as that. It's not your fault, but that's what staying is.

s0 I can totally understand where you are coming from. you hear stories of other people's abuse and you think that is so much worse. he is not that bad. I am not that person. no one wants to see themselves as a victim of DV because victim is quite an ugly emotive word. hence why we say survivor.

with EA it is very hard to tell. it has to be a long term and sustained pattern of abusive and controlling behaviour.
however, with assault, assault is assault. it only has to happen once. it is against the law. it is wrong. no excuse.

sorry to be so blunt but good men do not hit their or push their partners. good men most certainly do not do it while their partner is holding their baby.

yes, like all abusive men, he has his good side. no one would be with someone who was awful all the time. but unfortunately you do not get to choose the good bit the bad will always be there unless he take serious steps to address that issue.
first step- face the consequences- abusers will not stop unless they face real and serious consequences. in this case the consequences are either- he has to leave the family home and sort himself our, or the police. preferably both.

one of the hardest, most appalling and awful thing to realise about abuse, is they do not actually want to stop, because they benefit from their abuse of you. you are now scared of him. you are now less likely to argue with him in future. he can say his piece and you will be denied your voice because you cannot risk him harming you or your dcs. so he has now automatically won every argument. can you live like that?
the only other way this can go, is you do stand up to him again and he proves to you his actually abusive. well how can he do that? by doing the same again or something worse...what could be worse than what he has already done?...think about that...what could be worse because he may actually do it.

even if it is just stress (and believe me that is no excuse) he will inevitably become stressed again. life is stressful.

I am really. really, sorry to be saying all this because i don't want to terrify you but this is really serious. normally I don't try to rush people into seeing they are being abused. it is a horrible, shocking world shaking revelation but with an assault as serious as this you really cannot minimise it. (and you already are by not telling the counsellor- which is understandable he was there, you probably know you are risking consequences)

I am glad you have got a counsellor who seems to have her wits about her. Prepare yourself. if she is actually any good then she will tell you after the questionnaire that you cannot continue in counselling together.
do please be honest in the questionnaire and do please keep going to counselling. just not with him. and really consider asking him to leave and sort himself out away from you and your dcs. if he is serious, if he is not abuser he will go and address his issues and his stress elsewhere because his first priority should be his dcs and you and your safety.

by all means do not give up on him yet but do get him out of your home. as soon as possible.

I understand you wanting validation from the counsellor. it always makes us feel stronger to know there are other who agree with us. but really, you do know yourself. you know. you just have to allow yourself to admit the truth. and give yourself permission to leave.

this is not your fault. but you are allowed to do something about it.
passing you on all my good wishes and much strength.

I really dont think he is a bad person, or at leaat I am hoping he isnt.

OP, not to be harsh, but what exactly is your definition of a 'bad person'.

He might not be bad through and through. He might not be bad to anyone else but you. He might like puppies and kittens.

But he put his hand around your throat. He didn't care that you were holding a newborn. He didn't care that you could have dropped the baby.

Under no definition is he a 'good person'.

I hope the counsellor helps you see this and that you are able to keep you and your DC safe.

Hi s0fedup. You've had lots of great advice from the ladies on here so I'm not going to repeat it all, but I've been through a similar situation, except yours is worse. So shocked he pushed you when holding a newborn. That's low. My husband hit me last year (not for the first time) when DD was 18 months, luckily she wasn't around though.

We did Relate - all I'm going to say here is be very careful as it may not solve any issues and could even make it worse. Our councillor was lovely but seemed to validate everything he said, and I left in tears most times. She also ended the sessions after a few months when I begged not to. I hope it gives you some peace, just be prepared that it may not.

I'm sorry to say this is abuse. You havn't caught it early. But I've been there and I understand. Realising who your spouse really is is an earth-shattering thing and took me months to fully take in.

Unfortunately the trust has now been broken between you as a couple and you will find yourself watching him constantly from now on. It depends on whether or not you want to do that forever.

Please come and join us on the Emotional Abuse thread if you can, we're lovely and most of us have been through similar to you.

You need to leave him.

What happens the next time he gets stressed?

Get out of this now.

Hello s0fedup - seconding what others have said, and adding my voice to the invite to come over the abuse support thread. I lurked on it for a long, long time before I could bring myself to admit that I belonged there because my H was abusive.
I started to write that my H never pushed me over while I held my baby, so he's not as bad yours. But that's not true - your H is abusive, and my H was (is) just as bad. I say is in brackets because I am not with him any more, but despite repeated wake-ups calls, he never fundamentally changed. It's true he never pushed me over. He never hit me or beat me. But he abused me, sometimes pushing and pulling me about while I held our newborn, poking at me and intimidating me while I breastfed, sometimes yelling at me and frightening me with our son lying in the moses basket by our bed. It's hard for me to remember all that without getting upset. But I left him over a year ago now, and my two lovely boys are safe again, and I am finally coming out of the fog. It may take you time to process all this information, this idea of abuse from someone who you love, who you thought you knew. But let it all process. Think about it. Talk to people - Women's Aid, Respect, your Health Visitor (mine was brilliant).

I think you'll find the relate counsellor will want to do separate sessions. ALso your DH probably has to go on a course for abusers. Will he do this? MIne didn't , it made him livid.
Good luck. I hope you find a way out.

I can understand the seriousness only hit home when you saw the counsellorss face. Same here. I hope individual sessions for you can help you further, because it is very hard to see it when you are in the thick of it. We all feel our situation is unique, and feel guilty that it is our fault. I know I did, and still do to some extent.
Google strangulation and DV, it's scary stuff.

OP I too was in your shoes a few years ago. I believed the same as you and I didn't want the relationship to end, I just wanted him to stop hurting me and realise how good we could be if he just stopped being nasty.

I ended up in Relate because our 3 year old witnessed him throw me out of our vehicle and shove me to the ground. He never hit me, always pushes or shoves and verbal abuse though he did also put his hands around my throat during arguments.

Relate did not help. They prolonged my agony for possibly another couple of years. I wanted them to call him on the abuse but they never stood up and clearly stated that what he was doing was wrong (even though I sat there in the initial session covered in bruises from where he pushed me), they did a 'safety plan' where he agreed not to attack me and I agreed not to do anything to set him off.

Now, 9 years later I feel rage when I think about how much worse they made the situation. He manipulated the counsellor and managed to get her on his 'side'. They are NOT trained to deal with this and can (and often do) make it worse.

Relate is NOT recommended in abusive relationships for that exact reason.

Please, please keep contacting Women's Aid. I have undergone DV training and they know all about men like him, they are not fooled and even though he hasn't punched you in the face (yet) he is far more dangerous than you realise. Your baby has only got you for protection, you already said he resented you getting pregnant. YOUR BABY IS IN DANGER OP! It takes a split second to shake a baby in anger, a split second for him to lose control. Please, please realise this. You can leave now. As soon as you do you will break the spell. If you can't do it for you do it for your kids. Refuges are much nicer than you imagine. They are calm and safe places where you will be fully protected, like a little flat almost. There is help out there. Keep reaching out, listen to yourself. Read what you have written. He does NOT define your reality. This is real and he made it happen and if you stay it WILL get worse. If he can do this and get away with it, he can do anything. He could kill you or kill your kids. THAT'S how bad it is, seriously.
You can do this, get support, get help, tell people.

Please, stay safe. TRUST your instinct that makes you afraid of him. If you think he may kick off, get away and call the police immediately.

THEY are the ones you need now. Not relate. WA and the police will help you to do what you need to do, safely.

This is why joint counselling is not advised in cases of DV - because you minimise it to the counseller because he is there! He has done the same, not being truthfull, but you felt you could not tell all, not only because of the look on her face but because of his presence. Whether you felt you were protecting him, or wary of consequences afterwards - it's vital to have single counselling, to tell all to the counsellor. Don't spare her feelings either (although I was quite surprised she showed any; they are usually more reserved and matter-of-fact)

and I agreed not to do anything to set him off.
oh MadameB and on your behalf.

and yy to WA and the police. even just 101 initially so they are aware there is an issue.

"This behaviour HAS turned into abuse - it IS abuse. It is not only abuse, but his behaviour contained two of the most terrifying red flags for professionals who deal with abuse; hands around neck and attack of mother holding child. "

THIS....totally and utterly right.

I feel like my life has fallen into a black hole
what the hell has happened??
I cant stop crying

Is it all starting to sink in, do you think?

I think so

Thank you i will see if I can do that

hey s0 yes it is horrible and it is also really, really unfair. you did not sign up for this and it us not your fault. so it is not surprising you are crying

wish there was something that would make it better straight away but taking him back and letting him off with his behavior is definitely not it.

baby steps. keep walking until he is out the door or until.you are somewhere safe. and then work on healing. first things first. get you and your kids safe. gettingStrong is right. contact WA. they really can help.
and huge un MN (((hugs))).
chin up, chest out and godspeed it Will get better. and you can do this. you are much stronger than you think.

Hello s0 you've got some excellent advice here.

I just wanted to say that I didn't really believe it could happen to me either - I'm so far from the stereotype of an abused woman it's laughable. And yet it did happen to me and I was an abused woman

I'm out now. My children are out and are learning how to be children again, learning how to be happy and trying to be unafraid. It's going to take a while but we'll get there.

Ironically, my littlest, the newborn I was holding when he punched me in the arm, remembers none of it.

I did it. It was the hardest and easiest thing I ever did. You can do it too. Good luck.

It was the hardest and easiest thing I ever did. this