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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Arguing in front of the children

9 replies

feelingbad · 30/01/2002 02:32

I am so embarassed and ashamed about this I have changed my chat name.
My husband and I have two children, aged three and one.
We have a terrible relationship and there is no question I would leave if it were not for the children ( this is not the reason for posting, please believe me when I say there are numerous practical difficulties regards us separating and I am resigned to staying together)
we have a massive row about once a month , usually it brews over two or three days when there is a terrible atmosphere in the house.
Today he erupted at me in front of the children, calling me an insane b*tch and other stuff. I am deeply ashamed to say i yelled right back at him at the top of my voice and we continued screetching at each other for several minutes, during which time our one year old began to cry.
I have resolved never to do this in front of the kids again,(but have said this before) but it is very hard to hide a bad atmosphere. How much do you think this kind of thing affects young children? I fear I already know the answer.We have probably had this kind of row in front of them three times in the past two years.(ie it is not a daily occurrence, not to justify it or anything)
Our three year old has been uncharacteristically disobedient, tearful, obstructive and naughty over the past two days. Do you think it is likely to be due to the frictionbetween his parents?
I am so unhappy in this situation.

OP posts:
hwr · 30/01/2002 08:58

Having witnessed first hand the horrors of a bad relationship between parents I really want to urge you to get some help. Find someone you can talk things over with. You say there are practical reasons for staying, if you are worrying that your kids would be unhappy growing up in a financially precarious household (single mum etc) I can only say from experience that it would be better than being with 2 miserable, angry parents.

My mum is still in her awful marriage because she's too worn down to leave, has not worked for 20 odd years and has a 6 y.o. and 18m old. My teenage sisters rarely spend time at home (16 y.o. has basically moved in with a friend to avoid being at home) so they won't thank you for staying ina bad relationship in the long run. My 6 y.o. brother is a star but is badly affected by the situation,can be very volatile etc and will cry his eyes out about things, it cuts me up to hear him talk.

If you still have feelings for your husband then try to sort things out, but look closely at the "numerous reasons" you have for staying, are they really just excuses because you're afraid to be on your own?

This has got very long and i'm sorry if it upsets you more, you're in a horrible position and at least at the moment the really bad rows are infrequent. When you and your husband do calm down let the 3 y.o. see you being "friends again". GOOD LUCK!!

ScummyMummy · 30/01/2002 09:03

Don't be too hard on yourself, babes. These things happen sometimes and they aren't great for kids, obviously but then again kids are astonishingly resilient. I'm more worried about you. If you're consistently feeling this unhappy in your marriage then you need to find some long term strategies... maybe counselling, introducing some ground rules about arguing, I don't know what'd work for you.
Why is breaking up so inconceivable? It doesn't sound like this situation is benefiting anyone. Is your husband is as sorry as you are? (he bloody should be, and more, IMO).
Take it easy on yourself and maybe have a chat to your kids about how you and their Dad were very angry but both love them very much and didn't mean to scare them. I really hope things start to feel better for you soon.

louiseindevon · 30/01/2002 09:54

message withdrawn at user request

TigerMoth1 · 30/01/2002 14:05

Feeling bad, please don't beat yourself up about this.
I think there's two things here: firstly the row itself, and secondly general bad vibes and your unhappiness.

Taking the row first - well, you should hear the ding dongs we have in our house. Our 7 year old even enjoys joining in now and passes comment as we go. My husband is a loud man with a short fuse at times. I am none of these things, though I have learned to give as good as I get. I had to. Rows are how we sort things out,let of steam and prioritise things - sometimes! I avoid them if possible though, for more peaceful means of communication.

We try to have rows when the children are in bed and very,very, rarely resort to personal insult. They are usually about minor houshold things. I know underneath, my husband is a loving and good man. But being loud (sometimes), and temperamental is part of his personality. I can't hide that from the children. If they see him throwing a wobbly, (I usually go quiet and get stern) we make a big point of being very loving to them aferwards. I've told my oldest son that his father's bark is worse than his bite. He's got that sussed. I really don't feel guilty about my children witnessing the odd row kept within these limits: Quick, non-personal and a public making up soon after. It has done them no lasting harm that I can see. So, in your shoes, I wouldn't worry too much about the odd outburst like this.

As for the general bad atmospere - this IMO is where the problem lies. If your husband regularly insults you in front of the children, doesn't publically make up with you after rows and lets a bad atmosphere linger for days, IMO, it could well affect them for the worse. In the long term, it may make it harder for you to get your children's respect when you discipline them. At the moment, it's going to confuse them as they try and work out the rules of good and bad. I suppose you may well have bought this up with your husband. If you'd had any joy about this, I guess you wouldn't be posting here.

You sound so fed up after this outburst. If you are generally unhappy, then that's what your children could sense. It's difficult IME to give your children your full attention when your mind is elswhere. When I've had problems of one sort or another - as we all do - my children's behaviour has changed for the worse. I didn't notice this when they were babies, but as they got to three and four, they were aware of mummy's wandering attention and short temper on 'off' days.

However, isn't that part of growing up in any family? No one can have a perfect disposition all the time. And when I became nice mummy again, the behaviour IMO seemed to improve, with no huge long term effect. You say your three year old has been acting out of character recently - well yes, it could be that they are picking up the bad vibes, though equally there could be a thousand other non-related reasons.

I am rambling a bit, so I'll stop. I suppose I'm saying life isn't an American sit com. Don't take on all this guilt about the rows. As for the long term bad atmosphere, that's needs to be sorted out somehow with your husband. Hope this makes sense.

salalex · 30/01/2002 15:41

I don't know if I have much more to add but I felt I had to say please don;t get too upset about this. We have had a hard time since our first was born and have had some horrible arguments in her presence - which I am not proud of, especially when she brought me tissues and said don't cry mummy! I used to worry about how it affected her - and her younger sister who appeared when things were at their worst - as she was/is still sometimes quite horribly disobedient and naughty too, but I just kept loving them both and hugging them and telling them we loved them. We didn't argue all the time in front of them, and tried not to, but occasionally things would blow up. Youngest is fine. I do worry about eldest daughter sometimes, as she is a sensitive sort and can be volatile but I try to praise her a lot and give ungrudgingly of my time, hard when you're tired and fed up. I don't know what will happen with me and my husband, we may yet split up. My point is that it may affect them short term, but I really believe that if most of the time you are loving around your children and they know that you both love them, even if the two of you fall out sometimes, they will be OK. Kids are canny blighters and they may know when all is not right but as Tigermoth says, it's the real world and if you try and explain a bit about mummy and daddy having a bit of a shout but it;s all OK now sort of thing, I'm sure they'll accept that and move on to the next thing. Really sorry if I've rambled, but just wanted you to know you're not alone and people are thinking of you.

Batters · 31/01/2002 11:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

feelingbad · 01/02/2002 01:05

Thank you all very much.
You are a sensible bunch!
It helped to have it pointed out to me that the odd row in front of the kids is not the issue, the bad relationship is.
I will have to think long and hard about what we should do.
Incidentally the main problem about divorcing is there is a very real possibility ( will spare the details)he would get custody of the children ( I have sought legal advice on this).
This is what i meant by the fact I would leave if we didn't have kids, not really the same thing as what is normally meant by"staying together for the sake of the kids"

OP posts:
mollipops · 01/02/2002 07:52

Hi feelingbad (((((((()))))))hugs to you

I think you have already had some great advice and support here...I guess you already know that the arguments and name-calling in front of your kids is not a good situation. But what to do about it...would your dh consider counselling? Have you tried this already? Or maybe an anger management workshop? Are you able to talk when things are calm again? Do you "make up" and discuss why you fought or find a solution or compromise, or just not talk about it again (til the next row)? Are there issues just hanging unresolved until you argue about something else, and then they get brought up? Just a thought - do you think that your dh feels he has some sort of control or power over you because he knows you fear he would get custody?

Making up in front of the kids is especially important after fighting in front of them. They need to know that even though people get angry and argue, it doesn't mean they don't love each other. Remember they are learning from you and dh's behaviour how to deal with conflict and how to express anger and frustration. Maybe you need to draw the line and if he becomes abusive, just say "I will discuss this with you when you have calmed down" and walk away. I think you need to tell him in a quiet moment too, that name-calling is inexcusable and you will not accept it from him, particularly in front of the kids. A child sees himself or herself as part of their mother and to hear her being put down is like putting them down too - it hurts. Nobody can feel good about themselves in an atmosphere of tension like this, even if it only happens every so often.

If you are desperately unhappy, and you have tried counselling or your dh won't talk about it constructively, please seek help and advice about your situation. Keep in touch.

feelingbad · 02/02/2002 03:17

Thanks for that mollipops.
I have asked him if he would consider counselling. Actually I am very skeptical myself about counselling but would certainly be willing to try it. He absolutely would NOT consider it!
Yes we usually do talk about it the next day , so long as I pick my moment carefully, he opens up a little. Following this recent outburst he actually apologised, which is practically unheard of. And we did discuss it with our three year old.
I do kind of understand what the problem is. He gets incredibly stressed out ( mostly by the kids, he is home all day with them - his choice, he does not want to go out to work, not necessarily my choice, but financial considerations play a part) and in my opinion cannot see past his own stressors. It is as if he is the only one in the family "allowed" to be stressed.
He goes about like a bear with a headache for a few days then it all boils over. He then feels much better, while I feel much worse, usually with several really hurtful insults ringing in my ears.
We have different arguing styles. I never say anything I don't mean but he says alot of stuff he later claims not to mean, and I just cant understand that.
Thanks again for your help. It does help me a lot to come here and write it down.
It also helps that I don't get a knee jerk chorus of LEAVE HIM!!!
I am not sure if he feels a degree of power over me regards the custody thing.

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