People who theorise about affairs, never having experienced one themselves

[Wellwobbly]

Don't worry, I don't hate you or anything, and you are perfectly entitled to have your say!

They can be spotted a mile off (I can spot them a mile off, anyway). I suppose by the innocence of their 'impartiality'. Trying to make sense of something 'out there', twice removed.

I suppose the best reply comes from Chumplady:

Just someone muling infidelity over without having EXPERIENCED it. The tendency to intellectualize it evaporates when you?re on the receiving end of it.

Not true. With distance, you can still be philosophical and objective. Its possible, once the worst of the hurt has subsided. I have been there.

I think people, whether they have been affected by an affair or not, understand that immediately the reaction of the hurt party is an emotional rather than intellectual one but I'm not sure what you're trying to say beyond that?

The emotional reactions are often understandable but also often obviously just adding more damage; hysterical bonding, competing with the ow etc from the objective outsider's view.

Objective intellectualisation can be really helpful to someone who is reacting emotionally and I don't think it is necessarily a judgement on the person having a perfectly understandable emotional reaction that everyone would if they were actually the victim.

I'm not sure you need to have experienced an affair to give good advice but I'm also pretty convinced that most people have experienced affairs in some way whether personally or within friend/family circles.

If you want to restrict responses to a certain acceptable kind of poster, you will need to go to a moderated site, possibly one which verifies identities, rather than on MN.

But if you generally like the MN demographic, then this could be a useful place for getting a whole range of responses.

And of course that's what you get in RL too.

I think it's very easy to fail to understand why someone behaves so irrationally/badly following the discovery of an affair when you have never felt the pain of betryal/rejection yourself.

However, you could just as easily say that not having an affair places you a much more objective and therefore accurate perspective.

What you really need is the objectivity that comes with impartiality but with the sensitivity that comes from experiencing similar levels of pain.

I've never had a heart attack but managed to run a Coronary Care Unit for several years.Should the same theory apply to infidelity?I've never cheated on or been cheated on by my DP but still feel able to make the odd post as both my DS and DSIL have experienced marital infidelity.I'd never claim to have first hand knowledge though.

Hmm, I wasn't making any particular stand.

I suppose I remember my 'pre-affair' innocence which I see in other posters, where it was perhaps a bit of a laugh, or 'they are so common it must be normal' 'there must be something wrong with the marriage' or 'she must have driven him to do it' and other such [removed] beliefs, or 'its no big deal, get over it'

vs.

finding out what they are really like to experience, that they are actually completely unacceptable in a way that society doesn't talk about. That I did not have any idea at all just how painful and life shattering they are, and that the basic quality that explains an affair is selfishness.

For me, it was like being transported in Star Trek, or the Matrix or something that mind-bending. One minute I thought this about love and what I had, then my reality was permanently and irrevocably changed (and that in itself is so destabilising). The thought and the reality are so hugely different.

But people experience things differently. That's how you currently feel about your experience. Those things people say come from a different experience of life which may or may not include direct experience of affairs.

There's value in the diversity of human feelings/thinking about the same subject surely?

I genuinely thought I had a good marriage and that I was safe and loved. Now I am getting divorced.

My children thought they lived in a certain house for ever and their mum and dad loved eachother and their life was a certain way. Now they know unsafety and fear. Their innocence is gone, and permanently

The man who had the affair doesn't love his wife, and remembers his OW fondly. But he doesn't want to be divorced.

It is all a falling down the rabbit hole Alice in Wonderland mind-bending horribleness. But out there in the real world, in the meedja? Its all a bit amusing.

[Wobbly shakes head at the disconnect of it all]

Offred, am I telling people how to think? Am I? I think I have stated that three times now.

Please don't attack me. Please don't, this hurts so much.

wellwobbly.

I haven't experienced it neither but wouldn't say the things you suggest above. I admit I wouldn't know how it felt but anybody having gone through something traumatic in their life would know how to sympathise.
It must be hard to hear people saying such hurtful things like "she must have driven him to it". I would want to deck people like this.
Maybe its just people who are narrow minded, because that type always seem incapable of giving sympathy or empathy, whatever the subject matter

I'm not attacking you. I'm posting on your thread. I think this is a journey for you as it is for everyone who has been through it. You will not feel this way about it forever. It is very hard. Ignore any victim blaming comments (easier said) unfortunately patriarchy doesn't like women who reject abuse and ownership. It's sad and very unfair but I think it is more to do with patriarchy than whether people have experienced affairs or not.

You are doing the right thing.

Some of the worst victim blaming posts often come from women who have been cheated on and invested in the thinking that it was their fault for not being sexually available enough for example.

It is normal to not expect infidelity and betrayal. Healthy even. Healthy to react with sadness and healthy to say you won't put up with being harmed by a lover. Hard though.

How do you have to experience it?

Do you need to be cheated on? Be the cheater?

Is it enough if both your parents cheated on each other, and you were aware of all of it, and all the resulting fights and arguments and splits? Or that one parent would ask you to lie to the other? Cleaning up the mess they left before the other parent got home?

OP I know what you mean, I felt like I'd been on the receiving end of a crime. Furthermore it was perpetrated by the person I'd loved and trusted most of anyone I'd ever met in my life. The shock was enormous and it's a massive 'reality shift.' It's very hard to come to terms with, even years later. Having said that, despite the horror of it all, I am now in a far better place in my life than ever before, something which I also find headshakingly surprising tbh.

Good luck, it will get easier I promise.

If anyone posts anything on a public anonymous forum they are going to receive a range of comments, which may or may not be rooted in personal experience. When you are feeling raw about something then a thick skin is needed because there will always be posts that don't match your emotions.

If you only want empathy, and 100% guaranteed hand-holding, from people who have had the same experiences ( and that's not to say their emotions will be the same as yours anyway) then a forum is probably not the best place.

Maybe you need to decide what you want from a forum: a shoulder to cry on, a place to vent, somewhere you feel your experience is helpful to others?

If you can't take being challenged, and feel that yours is the only and 'right' opinion on anything then a public forum - just like real life- is going to disappoint.

Also, being raw and emotional does not always give perspective- you're too close to it and hurting too much.

Wellwobbly, I don't know how my post will be received as I don't wish to namechange but as one whose husband has had an affair and myself having had one, everyones life experiences and how they cope with traumas such as affairs, bereavements and other life shattering events, will be different; their thoughts, their emotions and reactions.

By being a well-known poster such as yourself, you open yourself up to either intentionally or otherwise, revealing tiny snippets of information about yourself and it is evident you are hurting and grieving for the breakdown of your marriage. I'm sorry for your loss but please, do not let your overwhelming feelings of sadness distort what you believe as fact and what you deem as opinion when posting on threads.

For clarity, I recently read a thread (other than the one I raised) in which you posted your 'reasoning' as to why I started an affair! Commenting on my original thread is acceptable, everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as you make it clear, it is your 'opinion' but stating what you think is fact on another thread is not conducive to helpful posting.

Wellwobbly, I don't know how my post will be received as I don't wish to namechange but as one whose husband has had an affair and myself having had one, everyones life experiences and how they cope with traumas such as affairs, bereavements and other life shattering events, will be different; their thoughts, their emotions and reactions.

By being a well-known poster such as yourself, you open yourself up to either intentionally or otherwise, revealing tiny snippets of information about yourself and it is evident you are hurting and grieving for the breakdown of your marriage. I'm sorry for your loss but please, do not let your overwhelming feelings of sadness distort what you believe as fact and what you deem as opinion when posting on threads.

For clarity, I recently read a thread (other than the one I raised) in which you posted your 'reasoning' as to why I started an affair! Commenting on my original thread is acceptable, everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as you make it clear, it is your 'opinion' but stating what you think is fact on another thread is not conducive to helpful posting.

Oops Sorry!! A bit of techno problem. Didn't mean to send post twice

Wellwobbly I agree with a point of your post which is like many things we don't know how well feel until we've been there.

It's true for affairs, having a child with disability, having a disability yourself, financial hardship. These events can rock your beliefs and too many people do think they happen to other people...

Hen - you have made a crucial and valuable point.

How one copes with the aftermath of affairs or any crisis is dependent upon many factors which will either ease their journey or cause more distress.

Financial difficulties
Lack of family/friends support network
Change of Geographical location
Change of Social network
Giving up careers to look after children
Coping with children, their emotions and loss whilst grieving yourself

The above list is endless but is of utmost paramount when dealing with the fallout of affairs but not everyone will necessary experience the above; therefore, may be able to process their thoughts, and feelings more with ease, concentrate on themselves and begin to build themselves a brighter future.

Your strength of character and personality will also play a huge part as to how you deal with your own experience but as cliche as this sounds, you will heal Wellwobbly, and I hope you will not let your feelings of sadness of the past shape your future.

"Note: Mumsnetters don't necessarily have the qualifications or experience to...."

It's there, right at the top of every thread, and how very true.

It's the hand-holding that's most useful isn't it.

Without doubt finding out about dp's betrayals last year was one of the most painful experiences I've been through. Similar to grief (and boy have I felt grief) but with an added fear, the fear of never really knowing my own life.

I dealt with it totally different to how I imagined I'd ever deal with something like this. I suppose looking back it was shock but I didn't scream, shout and cry. I was so very angry and adrenaline kicked in big time, I couldn't cry (at first, months later some tears fell) I just felt physically wounded. My emotions were the scar dp had inflicted. It was just awful.

I am still with dp. We have worked very hard on building a new relationship. He has changed but I'm still not at the forgiving stage yet, this will come in time.

My views on affairs have changed totally since experiencing the utter devastation they can cause. I would have probably been one who shouted 'LTB' I always said if anyone cheated they'd be out. I also didn't quite understand how life changing they could be. It makes you question everyone in your life really, for me it's made me a harder person. You can't know the pain of being lied to by the person you love until you've suffered it.

I think the fact that someone somewhere has been through the same things, yet has a different perspective on it really does help ... helps people realize they are not alone, their reaction is not out of the norm and that other people deal with things the same way OR differently.. and time passes......

Having an affair is cheating, most people's knee jerk reaction is to condemn cheating.

Of course all things to do with relationships are complex, but it's often hard to suppress the 'knee jerk'

Cupids arrows have always wreaked havoc, perhaps they always will, I have no idea what the solution is