daughter and emotionally abusive father

[masquerade]

I can't believe I started a thread last week about forgiving my ex for emotional abuse and now I'm posting this. I felt really supported and understood on my other thread.

So my ex was ex emotionally abusive during our relationship with a few incidents of physical aggression.

Our daughter is now 10 and recently came home from her dad's quite upset at some things he'd said to her called her, this isn't the first time. I think it was around a year ago when she was telling me she only wanted to go to her dad's for the weekend's if she was staying at her nana's one of the nights because her dad was sometimes nasty to her. At this time she said things like she thinks he doesn't like her, and that she feel like he just wants her to be perfect all of the time.

When she upset the other day I told her she didn't have to go to her dad's if she didn't want to and now she doesn't. I've no idea what to do, she's supposed to go every other weekend. She doesn't want to go because he is nasty to her, she will want to go at some point because she still wants to see her dad's gf and her family who she really likes, but she's not sure when.

I could make an excuse for the next time she's supposed to be going fairly easily and hopefully without causing any conflict but if the next weekend comes around and she still doesn't want to go then it will be quite obvious I was lying.

I haven't spoken to him about dd being upset because I'm almost 100% certain that it would not achieve anything at all. I would guess he would say she was lying and being manipulative and I'm encouraging it by playing up to her and no-way should a 10 year old be allowed to make the decision not to see a parent. Actually I say speak but we don't really speak, this would be by text.

I feel quite scared to tell him that dd doesn't want to see him as much as I support that decision and completely understand why she feels like that. Maybe I'm wrong to be letting her make the choice? Should I still encourage her to go?

I'm quite scared of his reaction. I don't even know why, I know what it will be, but I just hate the way it makes me feel. But how can I send my dd to a man that makes me feel like this? I don't want her to ever feel how I do. She's already said she's scared to stand up to him because she thinks it might make him more nasty. When she said this I told her I felt the same about her dad, that I avoided arguing with him because he could be nasty, she asked if that was why we split up (when she was a baby) and I said that was part of the reason, this lead to her wondering if he was like this with his gf as well. I don't even know if that was the right thing to do, but I didn't want her to feel like it was just her, or that the problem was with her not him.

Its so hard with emotional abuse because a lot of it is quite subtle. Some of the things he is saying sounds reasonable and believable, and some of the things I'm not happy about could be brushed off as different approaches to parenting. Part me kind of wishes he would do something obviously horrible to make is easier for me justify how I feel and letting dd chose not see him.

How have other people coped in these kind of situations?

Sorry its to long and rambling, bit of stream of consciousness there.

It's a difficult one.

Is there a court order or just an informal arrangement for this contact?

If your dd doesn't go, is he likely to take court action? Are you ready to fight a court battle? Your dd is getting to the stage when her opinion will be taken into account (although this will be more the case over the next few years - by the time she's eg. 14 I can't imagine anybody being able to force her to go). You might win if it goes to court, but it's a bloody expensive and wearing battle, as I know to my cost.

Is there any middle way solution - if her maternal grandmother is sympathetic, can she talk to her about trying to make contact happen as much as possible at her house? Or can she talk to her dad's gf about ways to minimise the nastiness? eg. if he's nice in public and nasty in private, can they spend as much time as possible with others during her weekend?

I'm sorry I don't have easy answers to offer. I do think that it would be better to stay out of court if you can. I think in a couple of years your dd will be able to stop contact herself. If it is possible to help her manage the time in between so that she gets some benefit from the contact with her extended family while keeping to a minimum the hurt done by him, this might be the best option.

I'd also see if there's any support your dd can get through school or through your GP to help her deal with the situation.

There's never been any court involvement NicknameTaken. I think he might threaten court but I'm fairly sure he wouldn't actually do it. He used to threaten he would take me to court for residency when she was little but it never happened.

I feel at the end of my tether tonight. He text me today and we spoke on the phone tonight. He's saying dd is lying about what was said and is playing the 'i'm very concerned about this' card, and he says she shouldn't be allowed to dictate when she sees him. He said he's coming tomorrow to talk to us about it without me feeding dd lies, I told him not to, I don't know if he will.

I'm going to go into the school tomorrow and hopefully I'll be able to see her teacher.

I'm feeling completely overwhelmed and its bringing back lots of feelings. I've just remembered tonight that when I lived with him and things were bad I used to think 'this is like torture'. My poor daughter to be exposed to this when she is so young and vulnerable, I often think I only survived our relationship without completely losing the plot because I had a stable upbringing and went into it with a good sense of self worth. She's not going to have that if this continues. When I went upstairs tonight there's a note stuck on her door saying she needs some time to think about things with her, please do not disturb unless it is urgent.

I really want her to be able to talk to someone about this, where she can just be completely honest about how she is feeling. He is accusing her lying, but I believe her. I'd like it to be someone who could give me an opinion on whether her relationship with her dad is harmful. I'm hoping the school can suggest someone.

Poor girl, do you have a solicitor you can ask about this?
From reading other access info on here many have said that the father doesn't have the rights, it's the child who has the rights to see the father, so if this is true, then she has the right not to see him if she wants. Not sure what age the court would listen, but 10 seems old enough to know her own mind.

Keep a diary of events, encourage your DD to do this too. Record what you remember of what he says, and emails etc.

Your Ex is not allowed in your home. Do not let him, it is a safe place for you and DD. You do not have to talk to him unless you want to.

Do try to help her find someone outside the family she can talk to.

Sympathy for both you and dd.

If he comes over to talk to you, you know you don't have to let him in or engage with him - tell him to put it in writing.

I hope you can get help through school for your dd. It might also be seeing if there are local options for someone with child therapy skills even if you have to pay yourself (I looked into a play therapist as I have a younger dd).

If you think he won't bring you to court, it might be worth calling his bluff and not forcing her to go. But it's important that you document why - all the stuff he's said to her and the emotional harm she is experiencing.

Above all, she knows that you believe her. Children can weather a damaging parent a lot better if they know that there is one parent who believes them and is on their side.

Perhaps you can frame it in terms of her "taking a break from contact". She might feel up for a later attempt in a while.

I know what it's like in your shoes - it's horribly painful to feel that you can't protect your dd the way you want to.

Best of luck, and if you find some helpful strategies, please do share! I don't know if anyone has the right answer. But you know what, by leaving him, you've shown your dd that this isn't "normal". She is going through some pain now, but you've saved her a lot of confusion and distress over the longer-term.

OP I really feel for you - I'm not in your situation yet, but expect to be in a year's time - DD is 9, and currently still behaving like an angel and trying to keep Daddy happy. Eventually I'm expecting her to say she doesn't want to go, but not to tell Daddy that she said that... Usually she just wants me to 'fix things', as she (understandably) can't work out how to do it herself.

I think this is not so much about court orders etc (given I doubt he'll follow through on his threats). It's about what age you give children the choice. That's not a straightforward concept - it's about how mature your child is, not just the age. It also means DC has to accept that they are the ones who refused to go - at least if it's you stopping her from going, it releases the pressure on DC. IMO you have to do what you think is best for DD, and it sounds like that is supporting her wishes. If you listen to what her concerns are, try to communicate those to your ex, and come up with other ways in which they could have contact, then you've done absolutely all that you can.

FWIW you don't sound like you've clouded her mind at all, or turned her against him. It's entirely predictable that he would say that. This is not a case of her just acting spoilt when he tells her off... this is your emotionally abusive ex who is now having an effect on your daughter.

Feel like I've rabbled on a bit without actually imparting any words of wisdom. Really just wanted to say that I know where you're coming from, you have my support, and it sounds like you have your DD best interests at heart, which is what you have to hold onto.

Good luck

Oh and definitely try the school. My DD has someone to talk to at school, and if there are any messages she would like them to feed back to her parents then they will, otherwise their chats are confidential. I figure the main purpose is to give her some coping mechanisms, although it's hard not to know what they say. I think each school has someone responsible for 'pastoral care' and usually there are county-wide specialists who can also be called upon to have a chat?