NC with parents for 4 years - aibu to want to discuss the patterns that caused it?

[Lucylonglegs]

Hi, I've namechanged as I know some MNetters in rl.

I've been no contact with my parents for 4 years and they recently turned up wanting to put the past behind us. They went to the wrong address (we've moved in the 4 years) so they called my husbands mobile. My dh said they could come but they'd need to be prepared to talk about what happened as it was a pattern, he made it clear it wasn't to establish blame. They only wanted to visit if we would just forget about the past and move on, so didn't come.

A week or so later I wrote an email, I tried to explain how the patterns affected us (my family) and that in the past we have just put it behind us, but I don't want to do this now. This is because they discuss everything thats wrong with us behind our backs, but we never have a chance to explain our side or defend ourselves, and the pattern repeats itself, so a year or two down the line they ignore us again, and they fester rehashing all the old grievances to justify their situation (to my brothers not us). Sometimes I can guess what I've done wrong sometimes I can't, if I say why are you ignoring me they say I'm imagining it - I'm ignoring them! The pattern is that usually my dad just ignores me, my mum writes emails that never mention the incident apart from saying I need to drop it and eventually I give in. Its emotionally very upsetting, since going nc I've found that I don't have the lows and self doubt I had when I was having a relationship with them, I'm much happier, but there is always that spectre that I don't talk to my parents which just feels wrong.

Anyway forward fast 4 years, I wrote the email, she wrote one back saying she just wanted to make up, it had all been a misunderstanding and dad had made it worse by the email he wrote (which was a nasty character assassination) because he'd got muddled about some things that had happened, I had been ignoring them and made her ill. They can't discuss it because dad doesn't remember events in order, this brain doesn't work like that. (He is an intelligent articulate man, but he has never had to face up to the consequences of his actions because my mum always tidies up after him.) I wrote back thanking her for the email, but explaining why I saw things differently, my email wasn't emotional, I tried to keep it factual. I've now got another one saying basically get over it, stop trying to rehash the past, I've done just as bad, and I'm stopping everyone from moving on - the tone is angry with little patience.

Am I wrong to think we should discuss this, or should I just move on? (Which would in some ways be the easier option) Sorry this is so long.

you're happier without contact, they want contact but only if you do it their way and forget about everything, the real question you need to ask yourself is will contact benefit you in any way because if they can get you doubting your decisions so quickly I'm not sure that longterm you will be better off with them in your life.

good luck.

Hi freemanbatch, thanks for your quick reply, thats pretty much what I'm thinking.

I would like a relationship with them because they're my parents, and my children's grandparents, but I think I can see that they've learnt nothing and believe its my fault and so it will happen again. I guess I was hoping that if they'd talk it might stop the pattern, but they won't.

They have stopped talking to almost their entire family at various times over the years, and those that they've made up with have just ignored the past. Some of these 'feuds' have gone on 20+ years - they aren't going to change are they?

Some people just are who they are and nothing is going to change that. You can spend your life hoping that they'll change or you can accept that they won't and decide if they are of benefit to you as they are.

They are your parents and they are your children's grandparent but sharing the same blood doesn't mean you ever have to share the same air. I've had issues with my parents for a long time and they have been far from supportive since I left my husband so I've made the decision that I will have contact with them to the level I want to have but I will not give them any openings to cause me trouble or to let me down so they never look after my kids, I don't borrow money from them and I don't tell them much about my life but when I see them we laugh and joke about things and have fun and the kids have fun. The relationship works for me, I'm not sure it really works for them but that's not my concern anymore and what works for your parents isn't yours.

Tell them what they can have and how they can have it, be clear about the boundaries and try not to worry about how they feel about it unless they are willing to sit down and discuss things properly.

In answer to your last question, it would be advisable now to move on and away from the mentally speaking because they like all toxic parents cannot or will not give you the answers you so seek. They do not apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. This is indeed what has happened here with particular reference to your mother's last e-mail to you.

I would not communicate with them further as doing so just leaves you open to more abuse and minimising of their toxic behaviour on their account. I would block her e-mail address as of now or at the very least send all her communiques to your spam folder without reading.

Read "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward if you have not already done so. I would also suggest you post on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these pages.

I would certainly think about your own boundaries with regards to them, I would argue that they need to be raised even more than perhaps they are now.

I would also state that if they are too toxic for you to deal with, then they are too toxic for your defenceless children. They need positive and life affirming role models, not those who slag off their mum at any given opportunity and minimise their own toxic behaviours at your expense.
Never assume that they will behave better because of your children; they likely will start on you via them given any opportunity to do so. Some grandparents really should not be given any access to their grandchildren.

Thanks for your replies, I read Susan Forwards book a few years ago after it first happened and thought they were probably toxic. I think the problem with toxic parents is they make you question yourself all the time as they twist everything. I always thought my mum was so nice and my dad was the difficult one, but over the years I've realised she is actually part of the behaviour.

I guess I was hoping we could clear the air and move on, but each email seems to get bogged down in the you did this I did that, and of course there are loads of examples over the years so you can't analyse every one and then it raises everyones emotions. I tried to keep it to behaviours, but when an example is thrown at me that is so wrong I feel the need to defend myself. I spent my whole life feeling like I need to defend myself, but they don't ever explain themselves, they just attack with another example of how awful I am.

I tried to go limited contact in the past, but that just annoyed them as they said I was holding a grudge and being difficult, I think thats why my dad decided to bring it to a head and cut me off last time. They want all or nothing.

Is there a way to have contact and control it? Do you think after such a long break they'll realise little contact is better than none?

No because they will still want their own way even now. Its their way or no way as far as they are concerned. They did not like limited contact last time around because you had control over that.

Your mother is your dad's willing enabler in all this overall dysfunction.

Controlling contact after a long time is fraught with difficulties and your boundaries with regards to them need further work. I would not pursue any contact with your parents because they seem to be masters of, "come closer so I can hurt you again".

Such people do not change. The fact too that they have fallen out with other family members speaks volumes.

I think I knew you were going to say that, its just so sad my dhs parent have both passed away, so my dcs have no grandparents. But you're right its still only on their terms.

I think I was questioning whether I was being unreasonable by not just dropping the disagreement, am I being unreasonable in expecting them to discuss it- here is the start of my mother's email:

Dear LLL, Yes I can understand how you feel but unless we can put this behind us none of us can move on. I asked you if you would try and build up some kind of relationship with me as a start. Trying to rehash everything just makes us all angry, hurt and misunderstood. These things happen and usually it is because our stress buckets are full and we snap. This is human nature. If we could rewind the events of course we could change them, but we can't do that and each email just adds to the injustices we perceive are there.

Its all waffle from your mother isn't it?. Its yet again an example of a typical toxic parent type e-mail to what they regard really as their errant daughter. There is certainly nothing in there about she and her H making mistakes and wanting to put right past wrongs. Its all BS and no remorse. She hasn't got a clue at all about how you feel whatsoever and does not want to acknowledge any of your feelings. She is showing no empathy at all and she does not want to discuss anything.

No you are not being unreasonable in wanting them to discuss it but they do not want to discuss it. They do not want to play ball and you have been more than reasonable with regards to them. You are after all dealing with emotionally dysfunctional people. They are being unreasonable here, also such damaged people cannot be at all reasoned with because they will always make you out to be the bad person here. They do not and will not apologise nor take or have taken any responsibility for their actions.

BWT what do you know about their own childhoods?. Pound to a penny their childhoods were themselves dysfunctional with parents who let them down abjectly as well.

I don't know a great deal, my dad was the oldest of 6 and top dog, his mother was ESN and couldn't cope with 6 children, he had no respect for her, his father was always so lovely to me, I remember my parents falling out with him, and they said he was difficult, but he really was always so nice to me - I was 14 when he died. My dad tried to control his siblings, and probably did when they were younger.

My mothers mother died when she was just married with her first baby at 22, I think she (MM) had problems because my grandfather had an affair, and my mum found her with her head in the oven, but I don't know much more than that, my grandfather was quite superficial, but he worked abroad a lot and she was part of a good extended family. I think she felt her older siblings looked down on her. She had a close relationship with her grandmother, and I think she was trying to copy that with my daughter saying things like let this be or secret - don't tell your mum - I really didn't like this as I felt it was encouraging secrecy and lying.