Mother of the Groom update - more bad behaviour but what does it mean?

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I posted before with this NC nickname about the problems my DB and SIL had with DM in the run-up to their wedding. They both spoke directly to DM by phone after earlier issues and she was quiet for several weeks (at least to any of us).

Then, on the day DM was a horror: trying to pick nasty arguments with everyone on our side of the family all day, aggressively finding fault with DB as he was stood nervously at the registrar's desk immediately before SIL was due to come in for the ceremony, alternating between comparing all of us negatively to SIL's family, and sulking because SIL's relatives didn't come over to talk to her. (I think they were probably terrified.)

When I left comparatively early I was publicly accused of a lack of affection for her because I didn't go around the table and kiss everyone like SIL's family members would do to each other. (I had a migraine headache and felt sick, had a small child half-asleep on my shoulder, and we're not a family who hug or kiss in public.)

After I'd gone apparently it all went downhill even more rapidly and ended with DB telling our mother that she'd ruined his wedding day and he hoped she was finally satisfied. There was apparently an almighty row which others had to calm.

DB and SIL had made things up with her sufficiently to attend another family gathering a few weeks later. After that they've kept to themselves for a few months and I don't blame them.

Fast forward to this weekend and DB phoned for a chat. After the general catch-up he raised the wedding but surprisingly he didn't seem that angry now. He asked me if I thought there was anything wrong with DM. He had tried to speak to her the morning after the wedding and had been disturbed at her apparently not remembering anything she said or did on his wedding day.

I thought he was implying dementia and I said something along the lines of "Oh no - she's always done this. Don't you remember when we were children and I had to write things down to prove later that they really happened and I wasn't going mad?".

(An example was when she burst into my room while I was trying on a swimming costume as a young teenager, ignoring me asking her to wait, and then screamed and raged at me at length while I stood there half naked trying to understand what she was so angry about. Apparently I said something wrong when I answered the door to a door-to-door saleswoman earlier that day and she had heard about it second hand. It may sound relatively minor but was scary and humiliating at the time. In DM's world this never happened and I was shaking and crying over nothing that day.)

DB said that this was precisely what he meant. Thinking about the irrational rages followed by apparent amnesia as a long-term pattern, he had come to the conclusion that there might be something seriously wrong with her mental health.

I said I wasn't sure and didn't think it would change very much at this stage. I silently wondered if DB wanted to believe that his mother was ill rather than just sporadically vicious to her own family for no reason.

I've been mulling it over since and still don't know whether she is just badly behaved or if she could have some kind of mental illness. Part of me thinks that even if DB is right she is still responsible for never seeking help. It wouldn't change anything.

Someone who knows more about these things will doubtless be along shortly, but what you're describing sounds like a kind of 'gaslighting' ie your DM at some level knows perfectly well what really happened/what she said (ie its not amnesia) but either to wrong foot you or because the truth doesn't suit her, she claims things happened differently. Diagnosable mental illness? - I don't know, but certainly a reason to take anything she says with a large pinch of salt, verify her account of events with another 'witness' before believing them, etc. She sounds like a nightmare TBH...

My ex mil was exactly like this,caused same kind of problems at mine and exh wedding then went on and did same thing at exbil wedding ( 1 month later). She didnt have mental health problems,she was just a cunt

Could it be some kind of minor fit which blanks out memories? It sounds like a long history of awful episodes.

Check out the 'stately homes' threads and then the website 'daughters of narcissistic mothers' - you are not alone.

www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/

You might want to find out more about Personality Disorders, especially Narcissistic PD, Borderline PD and Histrionic PD.

People with PDs generally do not go to counseling and refuse to accept reponsibility for their actions. There are exceptions but as family members it's important that you understand they do not have normal boundaries for behavior and you need to protect yourselves.

Oh, she remembers, all right! Definitely gaslighting, trying to make it OK by pretending it never happened.
She sounds like my MIL.

My MIL has these sort of 'black-outs' as well. She is an alcoholic though and in her case she may not remember a lot due to the booze. Although I don't think she can forget all that she pretends to.
Could your mother be drinking. MIL has been an alcoholic for years, but her family didn't know about a lot of her drinking since it was secret.

Not unfortunately all that surprised to read that your mother was a horror at the wedding; that was predictable as that day was not about her.

Your mother is more than likely to have some form of personality disorder; narcissistic personality disorder is a distinct possibility. Would not think it is dementia because she acted similarly when you were both children.

Such people do not change and do not seek help; all you can do is protect yourself from such a malign influence in your mother. Boundaries need to be raised and maintained.

OP if you look at the link sashh has provided under Mothers with NPD in the left hand column click and look under

"Your Success and Happy Days"

everything will be revealed.

I was going to say possible borderline personality disorder too. My DM is exactly the same.

Her behaviour has improved somewhat by taking antidepressants. She had a bereavement and her behaviour was getting even worse than usual. Picking arguments with strangers being the most obvious feature.

A relative managed to persuade her to seek treatment going from the point of view - what's happened, you don't seem to be your normal lovely self - rather than hitting her head on with what we all thought of her.

I still can't spend more than 24 hours with her - but it's not nearly as bad as it was.

She sounds like my 'D'M who has narcissistic personality disorder.

Here's some information about it from Wikipedia:

'Symptoms of this disorder, as defined by the DSM-IV-TR include:[1]
Takes advantage of others to reach own goals

Expects to be recognized as superior and special, without superior accomplishments

Expects constant attention, admiration and positive reinforcement from others

Envies others and believes others envy him/her

Is preoccupied with thoughts and fantasies of great success, enormous attractiveness, power, intelligence

Lacks the ability to empathize with the feelings or desires of others

Is arrogant in attitudes and behavior

Has expectations of special treatment that are unrealistic

In addition to these symptoms, the person may display arrogance, show superiority, and seek power.

Narcissists have such an elevated sense of self-worth that they value themselves as inherently better than others, when in reality they have a fragile self-esteem, cannot handle criticism, and will often try to compensate for this inner fragility by belittling or disparaging others in an attempt to validate their own self-worth. It is this tendency that is characteristic of narcissism as opposed to other psychological conditions affecting level of self-worth.'

Ring any bells?

I was also going to ask whether she drinks a lot. The things you've described sound like the behaviour of someone who does.

Thank you for the thoughts and suggestions. I've only had phone internet for the last couple of days and couldn't post properly again until now.

I see a lot of parallels with the NPD descriptions and stories but am still unsure about labeling her. She cannot handle criticism, belittles the people closest to her and does interpret all of our thoughts and feelings in terms of her own. DM does typically ruin any kind of special occasion. (I have an aversion to birthdays, xmas, graduations, anniversaries and only go if it matters to other people. Left to myself I would happily ignore all of them forever.)

She definitely doesn't drink. I've never even seen her tipsy and can't blame the moods and rages on anything else chemical either. Whatever it is, it's just her.

DM does also have flashes of utter disarming kindness. I appreciate it but try not to let it draw me in these days as I know I always regret trusting or confiding in her. She can be utterly vicious.

How convenient that she doesn't remember her episodes of nastiness.

DM does also have flashes of utter disarming kindness.

I bet she doesn't have trouble remembering those.

I don't have the answer, or any suggestions. But the example you gave from your teenage years struck me as my mum pulled similar stunts. I was terrified of her and never knew what she would do next. Now it strikes me as such a dark thing to do to a naive young person - make them doubt their own mind. She has mellowed a bit now but still pulls the odd histrionic. I live on the other side of the world from her now, much better for us both.

At least you have your brother on your side. I feel for him, the wedding sounded very stressful.

DM does also have flashes of utter disarming kindness.

That is textbook NPD
My mother (nothing D about her) is the same, and it is what took me a while to cut her off. She was like an abusive partner who would segue horrific emotional abuse with lovely kindness, and just as I was won back over, she would revert to type
Each and every time, it was a total kick in the stomach, like finding someone had cheated on you.

It won't get better, it won't go away. You can either cut her off or learn to deal with it, but please please talk to your brother about it.
Me and my brothers self-diagnosing our mother was a hugely healing thing and made our own relationships stronger as we stopped judging ourselves as mad!

If she is a narcissist ( and I speak from experience of having one in the family for a long time) then the important thing to understand is that they live in their own version of reality. They believe their own version of events. That's why you can't reason with them. Reasonable people like your brother will try to find a way to make their behaviour make sense, but ultimately that's a futile exercise. You have to realise that if they say black is white, then they believe it to be true. All you can do is decide how you are going to handle it. This may need to be disengagement or very carefully controlled interaction.