Friends insecurities - help!

[AnnimalMagic]

I am a long time MNer but have name changed for this. I'm finding that I'm becoming increasingly worried and upset by my local friendship group and wondering if anyone has any advice?

I live in a rural area with lots of people who have moved out of London. A lot of them are a bit younger than my DH and I but we all live in the same area and send our similar aged children to a handful of schools and nurseries. We have lived here for eight years but seem to have trouble making close friendships. We do some suppers and lunches at our house and I see lots of school mums for coffees and playdates and do as much as I can to be a good chum.

We feel as if we're making some nice friends, but then hear about lots of things that are going on that we're not invited to. There is always lots of chat about how we are going to be invited back or out to things, but it doesn't seem to happen....

We are at the edge of this large social group which is all quite competitive. Some of the mothers are happy to talk to / in front of you about things that we haven't been invited to.

I have one friend that I'm closer to who is very popular. She is very secretive about what she is doing before things have happened and very name droppy about it after. I think she is secretive because she doesn't want to hurt my feelings. We meet the same folk, but she has the knack of turning brief meetings to drinks in the pubs, suppers and ultimately close friendships which exclude me. My DH gets annoyed with her as he thinks she isn't really a good friend - just that she is very charming and makes everyone feel close.

DH isn't that fussed. He is a lone bird who is happy to be here with his family and not much else. He doesn't make any effort socially. He likes people when he meets them, but doesn't have the need to take it any further. I am more of social animal and have always been able to make friends.

All this has left me feeling very left out and insecure. I've always been quite popular and never worried too much about friendships. I feel like a teenager writing all this down, which I know is ridiculous. Common sense tells me to forget them all and hope that someone moves here who is more my cup of tea, but it has been going on for a long time and I keep getting upset about it.

Any thoughts or advice appreciated - thank you

I'm not sure I can help, but I can relate. I live in a small rural area too, and there is a very definite "set" here who think they're cool and living life straight from the pages of a posh magazine. They are utterly boring and very funny to watch.

Thankfully, there's more of "us" than there is of "them" . Seriously though, surely if you dig deep enough you could find school run mothers and fathers who aren't cliquey? It's a tiny community here too, yet I plough my own furrow and I've made some lovely friends. I just ignore the others.

I think you'll have to develop a thicker skin in the end.

Thanks Peppermint - that's funny about your 'set' - they sound rather like my lot! We're starting at a new school in September and I hope the bunch there are a bit nicer. I find it difficult that they are happy to see me for some things - during the day with our DCs or at our book club - but not socially without those props. I think you're right about a thicker skin and wonder if I should pull back from these other things too.

I have no real advice to offer but I am a bit like your husband and happy in my own skin. Very rural area.. different country to where I grew up. Lot of work friends (genuine) but lot of bitching too (I wouldn't bother with people much who are doing what your neighbours are doing i.e excluding) so I avoid people. This is probably not ideal and get lonely sometimes. My couple of close friends are good but I don't see them that much due to work commitments and closest has a new boyfriend (her first), I am heavily pregnant so not out at clubs/pubs.

Try to find the genuine people... I wouldn't follow them .. you are right to try and forget about them.. it is hard.. hugs!!!

Cant offer any advice but i also live in a rural area about 3 miles from the nearest village. I have been here 4 years now and find the way people socialise here baffling. Lots of cliques, bitching, turf wars between families regarding land and cattle, familes in 3rd generation not speaking to other families. I find lots of people happy to chit chat but no one willing to be friends. We moved from the city to a rural farming community. We are in rural Scotland too, have given up to be honest and channeling my lone bird, dh sounds like your too. We plan to move back to the city in about 6-7 years when ds has near finished primary schooling. People round here are very negative about cities and say people in cities are very unfriendly. I find it a load of tosh, people in our nearest city are very friendly. Im in the city today and feel so homesick. People here actually say thank you and hold doors open for you and dont barge into you when walking down the street.

I think your dh is right and she isn't a close friend. Try to distance yourself from her, so you don't hear all this stuff about what a great time she had and you weren't invited.

Concentrate on the nice people. Like you:)

Thanks for your replies ladies, it's comforting to know that I'm not on my own to find this friendship thing hard. I keep wishing I could meet some kind, wise soul who would know how to handle it all! You may think I'm naive, but I'm only just realising how competitive so many people are and that their friendships and social lives are an extension of this. DH and I had a chat this afternoon and he says he feels as if we're losing a race that we haven't even entered - he thinks its all hysterical! GGRrrr

mrspaddy - you sound quite like my DH - he is very similar and advises me to avoid people. Deep down I know I should do this, but find it difficult as don't want to be left out, want the dcs to have playdates and hate tension or bad feeling. Funny how work friends can be some of the best we make - so much common ground. Know what you mean about not going out much towards the end of pregnancy - I was always too tired by that stage... Do you do any NCT stuff or baby groups?

froginthepond. Baffling is a good way of describing things. My family are from Scotland and I know that rural areas can be very unwelcoming much more so than in some cities. Perhaps its due to people being more transitory in towns? Why are you going to wait so long to move? Is it for work reasons?

Can I be impertinent and ask your age?! I moved down here when I was very early 30s and though I was (grudgingly?) accepted by some of the "old" families (because my Dad had been here for years), I still had a few run-ins with one or two individuals. The big word for me down here is "parochial". It totally sums up the awful insular attitude of some people.

I simply found that I had to (loudly, sometimes ) disclaim it and think "sod you".

I was reasonably confident then, but now, well, now I am a raving old dear of almost 45 I genuinely don't give a toss about all that awful village-y stuff.

In getting to that state of near-nirvana (ha!), like minded people have started appearing all over the place, so I wonder if that's the answer? Grit your teeth, throw your head back and "do it anyway", your way? I dunno, but you sound far too nice a person to be around people like your secretive so-called friend.

I have found a book by Shasta Nelson (Friendships don't just happen) really useful for understanding friendships including different levels, I'd recommend.

It sounds like she is an acquaintance type friend.

To be honest with kids friendships all being intertwined perhaps tis better to be on the edge of the group
Question is how to meet close close friends, people who can really be in your inner circle.
I don't know the answer to this; this lady has set up a way of joining a friend dating agency for want of a better description, going to 3 organised evenings out with different groups of women and by the end of it, you should emerge with some potential close friends. It sounds good but is sadly US based only at the moment.

Ugh, over use of quotation marks in my last post...

Animal ignore them and enjoy your life. When my DC were in primary school I met the most vile mothers who behaved like that lot. The most popular one was the biggest bitch of them all. I thought I wasn't liked but normal friends and 2 sisters had exact same experience even though they live 120 miles away. Secondary school is heaven because you don't have to engage with those mothers. I now have decent friends who don't behave like that coven of witches. It's not you its them!

Thanks Lavenderhoney ? I didn?t see your post earlier as cross-posted with you. I know I?m sounding pathetic, but I seem to have lost most some of my confidence. We?re in a book club together and she?s hosting next ? do I not go or or go and avoid too much chat with her?

Peppermintpatsy ? I?m a raving old dear too ? 46 but with two young dcs. Parochial isn?t my problem- almost everyone here is an incomer from London as all the old locals have been priced out of the market. Most people are new and trying hard to make friends.

Canadawater- thanks for the info about the book, I?ve ordered it already! I hadn?t thought about looking for something in print but I am so pleased to hear of something good. As you say, how to meet your inner circle friends? At the mo, I find myself giving too much of the best of myself to people who don?t deserve it.

Whitesugar ? your post really buoyed me up. Why are there so many nasty people around? Sadly I have years to go until secondary, but you are right ? I should ignore them and get on with enjoying my life.

Writing all this down and offering it up for a semi-public airing has made me realise how petty it all is. I know I?m upset, but that is just probably a sign of needing to move on. I need to work out how to do this without falling out with everyone as unless I persuade my DH to move, we?re all going to be here for a while?

We?ve picked our DS new school because it?s a 30 min drive away and full of broader mix of people. We started in Feb and it?s been a breath of fresh air not to have car park tension and coffee mornings to worry about. The annoying thing is that lots of them are now choosing to go there too. One is the local queen bee who everyone adores and sucks up to is going too? She knows lots of people there (naturally) and is busy organizing a coffee morning for us all in September? She makes you feel amazing but it is all BS and she?s always laughing about people behind their backs. I?ve been asked to be a class rep for next year and I?ve accepted. Part of me is really excited about this and part of me is nervous about it all being the same. Any advice?

Sorry to ramble on ? obviously lots to get off my chest? Thanks for reading.

The queen bees daughter in my situation was my daughter's best friend - torture! I really had to work hard to bear it. I went to some things because there were actually some nice people there. I am not from here so I needed to get to know some people. I steered clear of the obnoxious ones but would invariably meet them at kids parties. As the years went by I found out that most normal mothers could not bear those idiots. I got to a stage where I was friendly with lots of nice people. Our relationships only really centred around the kids and I am always glad to see them in passing now.

I don't know anything about the class rep role. Whatever it entails you will meet some nice people like yourself. Just try to tolerate the rest!

Perhaps try joining things more meaningful than coffee mornings, maybe do charity work or join a craft group.

This is not what I did when DCs were small but now think that that is what I should have done, making friends is trickier as you get older unless you have a shared interest like work or a hobby. Otherwise what do you talk about but comparing DCs achievements or gossiping about other mums which is not likely to end happily.

Spare time is short with small DCs but it would be worth looking further afield for friends imo.

You don't sound pathetic

I think one way is to downgrade her in your mind to a "contact" friend - just someone who you happen to know - and realise they way that you feel is stemming from the need for friends further up the hierarchy of friendship
The book explains it far better than I can

I think look to elsewhere for the truer friendships outside of school mums is good advice
I think the book talks about how it takes commitment and time and seeing someone regularly to move a friendship up the hierarchy

Could you take on something that means you can't hang about in the car park cos you have to be somewhere ASAP after drop off? Volunteer somewhere or a yoga class? Something - anything - where you get to see the same people on a regular basis.

I think you fit in because you are invited to the daytime girly stuff but your dh doesnt fit in with the couples stuff in the evening and weekends, but then he doesnt seem to want to or care about it , and they know!

I really wouldn't go to coffee mornings- ime its just a bitch about school, how ds are doing and if you are class rep, you will end up with lots of jobs to do. Avoid!!

These queen bee types make me run away- not enough to do in the afternoons :)

Wear gym stuff for drop off - you don't have to go to a gyn, btw.

Just be friendly with people you actually like, which will probably be one or two, as otherwise its hard to sustain as you have a family and other things to fill your time. Don't let people fill your time with problems that aren't even problems.

Ask your teacher if you could talk to a class rep from last year- they'll tell you what to avoid:) I was once asked to create and maintain a fb page for the class and I was mightily unpopular when I said no. The school weren't involved, and it was a group of mums who wanted one but didnt want to do it themselves - so thought I could and they could supervise me:)

Oh how I wish Mumsnet had been around when I was going through schoolgate hell ten years ago!

So much good advice on this thread, especially Lavender above and her advice on coffee mornings - avoid at all costs!

My experience of contact with school mums left me a quivering wreck of neuroses and paranoia. I actually felt like I was having a breakdown towards the end as I was bullied by stronger characters desperate to convince me I was doing everything wrong with my (clever, socially confident, healthy and successful) children and that I really should be following their parenting advice (their children were constantly 'ill', dirty, socially inept, mentally unstable, 'allergic' to everything.......)

Looking back I am so annoyed with myself that I didn't stand up for myself and my values/beliefs more. A lot of it was down to class and confidence - they saw me as too working class (and clean!) to be of any significance and so just used me as a way of making themselves feel better.

Fucking bitches

Go your own way, OP, and do your own thing !

school gate friendships are a bit like work friendships in my experience: I've met the odd person who becomes a really good friend but usually I am a bit cautious. I make an effort to be on good terms with everyone but don't get too close, and definitely don't get drawn into politics or bitching.

and yes, some people are just toxically insecure.

I like Notquiteperfect and Flicktheswitch's posts btw. :-)

Friendships should add laughter, fun and support to your life (and theirs), not stress and worry. Life is too blooming short to bother with all the drama llamas, competitiveness and bitchyness.

Go to the events, clubs, etc that you think you'll actually enjoy, be your friendly self and meet some genuinely nice, fun, kind people.

at your 'friend' - she is making you feel left out by going on about stuff she isn't inviting you to, he's maybe doing it delibrately to make herself feel important, or maybe she just doesn't see you as a close friend. Either way, I'd stop trying to get her to accept me into her 'set' and just get on making friends that aren't so silly.

Thank you for so many interesting replies. I can? tell you how much better you?ve all made me feel about this. This is what I love about Mumsnet ? lots of great chat and advice. Thank you I feel a lot lighter and seemed to have re-gained a sense of proportion about it all ? never a bad thing! In all of this I had forgotten that friendships are supposed to be about fun and happiness.

Thanks especially for making me realise that this ?friend? is not really a friend but an acquaintance. This has been quite liberating! The penny has dropped that I?m not missing out with the set as they maybe aren?t as nice as I thought. I?ve already started pulling back from them and it?s great to feel more in control.

I?m going to focus on myself more and spend more time developing my own friendships and interests away from the children. Someone suggested a regular class and I think that?s a great idea. I?m really short of time, but am going to think about doing some voluntary work again ? I used to do loads before DC and I know it?s a cliché, but it really is rewarding.

The book should arrive tom too!

that's great, AnimalMagic! Cheers!

I wish mumsnet had been around as well when my DC were little. Vile vile people. The most vile spent 7 years lording it over me because her husband was a doctor, marriage didn't last though because they were equally vile. I suppose I tried to be nice because our DDs were bff. When primary school finished my DD got into a grammar by the skin of her teeth, and her DD didn't. She tried to force a small girl into hours of tuition just to pass so she could hold her head high. Her DD like my DS is dyslexic and should not have been put in that situation just for her mother to hobknob with the right people. The minute she heard my DD got into grammar we never saw her again. This is a minor miracle because she lives less than ten minutes walk away. In 5 years I have only seen her once when I drove past her.

OP count yourself very lucky they don't invite you over. Delighted to see thread because it's a very common dilemma.