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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

I've just realised that I am pissed off with most of my friends

26 replies

mcmooncup · 19/06/2013 21:12

When I was married, I was part of a big group of couples / friends.

I split with my ex because he was abusive.

Every one of those friends knew what had gone on. And not one of them has ever said anything to him in the 2.5 years since we have split and still keep in contact with him. I would say, their contact is less, but still.....in contact. No conflict with any of them in any way. Yet they all know what he did, some even saw it.

I think the Nigella thing has brought this up for me - all the debates about why nobody intervened. And I realised not once have my friends ever really validated it by asking/challenging/ expressing disquiet to him.

I think I'm quite upset about this. I feel really let down all of a sudden.

OP posts:
ecclesvet · 19/06/2013 21:39

What kind of abuse was it? How do you know they knew? EA is much harder to detect than physical abuse.

Dahlen · 19/06/2013 21:43

Good. Smile

Not good that you feel bad about it or that people have let you down Sad, obviously, but good that you are recognising that social acceptance of this is a big part of the problem.

I went through a similar experience. For a while I had no friends (bar my two closest girlfriend and old uni friends). I now socialise with people who would be horrified by abuse and would make their feelings known to people who carried out abuse. As a direct result of this I am finding that the quality of my friendships is much improved. People who turn a blind eye to abuse often have other questionable characteristics, too.

It's hard when you're going through it, but you really are better off without them.

Hassled · 19/06/2013 21:47

I'm not surprised you're upset - it's absolutely shit of them. The continued contact is an implied "what you did was OK" to him, isn't it? And I'm sure your friends haven't thought it through in those terms, but that doesn't make it easier for you.

GingerJulep · 19/06/2013 21:54

Depends on what your friends know went on... 'abuse' is a very on-specific term. I'm friends with plenty of people I'd never date many of whom behave despicably in romantic relationships. That doesn't mean they can't be good company or even great friends.

Dahlen · 19/06/2013 22:01

Ginger - I too have friends who aren't great partners/spouses, but I would not keep them as my friends if they were abusive.

Nice people can do bad things. We couldn't all go around dumping people for every misdemeanour they've ever carried out as we'd have no friends and probably find ourselves dumped, too. A decent person can also make quite an awful mistake, but still be a decent person, learn from their mistake and move on.

Abuse is different. Abusers almost never change. And that sense of entitlement is pervasive in pretty much everything they do. An abuser is capable of acts of kindness/generosity/etc (although it usually has an ulterior motive), but that does not make them a kind/generous person in the way that an adulterer may be, for example.

ecclesvet · 19/06/2013 22:04

But Dahlen, one person's 'awful mistake' is another person's 'abuse'.

Dahlen · 19/06/2013 22:08

No ecclesvet it's not. Only someone who is uneducated about abuse would think abuse is an awful mistake. If it was a one-off yes, but it almost never is. Abuse is a pattern.

ColinButterfly · 19/06/2013 22:10

ALL of my friends picked up,on my ex's abuse before I did. None of them would give him the time of day/spit on him if he were on fire etc.

Some people do anything for a quiet life though. :(

Im sorry you went through an abusive relationship. Fucking wankers.

ecclesvet · 19/06/2013 22:18

But you cite an adulterer as someone who has made an awful mistake but might otherwise be a decent person. Some people consider an affair to be abuse, there was a thread about it a few days ago.

Dahlen · 19/06/2013 22:36

Serial adultery is certainly a form of abuse. One-off adultery isn't. The difference is that one-off adultery is actually pretty common, whereas one-off abuse is exceptionally rare.

Original poster
mcmooncup · 19/06/2013 22:36

I know what you mean about it being good Dahlen. The truth still hurts though.

It's funny, my BF since school who is part of that group is married to a guy who I'm pretty sure is EA. So she is minimising every day at the moment and totally in denial. I'm sure my story doesn't help her right now.

I feel such a loser though for not picking up on this earlier. Guess I've not had the self esteem to think I deserved better. Damn. It. Thought I was doing ok.Angry

I have got lots of other friends. But I've never dropped a friend in my life....I wonder if I will now Blush

OP posts:
babyhmummy01 · 19/06/2013 22:36

If these people have always been.friends with you both then its quite unreasonable to.expect them to.choose between you. They don't have to.condone his behaviour but it doesn't automatically mean they have to turn their back on him either.

I understand why you feel let down but I think you need to look at it from their position, its never a good idea to interfere in someone else's relationship. They may havefelt too awkward or unqualified to say anything. Interfering almost always ends up in a mess.

You are looking at it now having left, can.you think back to when.you were still there and trying to make it work, would you have really thanked them for sticking their noses in?

Abuse is a hard thing to be certain of as an outsider and even harder to know what to do for the best.

Original poster
mcmooncup · 19/06/2013 22:43

That is what I have thought for all this time babyh - it is unreasonable of me to expect them to chose.

But I seem to have all of a sudden changed this opinion.

It is about what is right and wrong. He abused me physically, sexually, emotionally and financially and they all know this. It is not interfering I expect, but at least ONE of them to say to him he has been out of order in the very least.

I don't think it's good enough just to be a bystander anymore.

OP posts:
Dahlen · 19/06/2013 22:47

Please don't feel like a loser. Sad

I did too. I couldn't believe that I had put up with it and thought I must have been stupid to have done so. I know exactly where you are coming from.

But as a society we have normalised most emotional, psychological, financial and sexual abuse between couples. We describe it in terms of 'men are from mars', it's not men's fault that only women have babies, men have needs, he only behaves like that because he really loves her and he's so passionate about her, it shows he cares...' ad nauseum.

It's not a significant step removed to say well yes violence is wrong but I'm sure she provoked him and he's very sorry. And sadly many people still think along those lines.

Don't feel stupid for internalising a message that society has spent hundreds of years reinforcing. Female equality is still a very recent concept and one that still hasn't achieved it's full strength.

TheSecondComing · 19/06/2013 22:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Dahlen · 19/06/2013 22:58

TSC - I think that's very different to what the OP is describing. I'm a bit of a crusader when it comes to abuse, but I still wouldn't blank an abuser in the street, especially one with his children in tow.

babyhmummy01 · 19/06/2013 23:05

Do they know about it because they have witnessed it all or.because you have related it to them.though?

Assuming the latter, then you have to wonder if they believe you 100% or think some could be exaggerated. I am not suggesting you are lying or that they think you are, but no one likes to think a close friend is capable of doing certain things.

I speak from experience after being raped by a boyfriend. For my own reasons I never went to the cops and the only reason anyone knows is cos his best mate rang me to rant at the fact I dumped him and turned down his marriage proposal. I told him why I had dumped him (i was very drunk and decided wtf). According to his friends and some mutual ones I was a lying frigid bitch. No one could bring themselves to believe he was capable.

It's not always as straightforward as right v wrong

Dahlen · 19/06/2013 23:08

babthmummy there's a lot of truth in your post. I think that explains a lot of people's reactions. It's certainly explained a few of mine in the past. I suppose the difference is that now I've been on the receiving end of it a story similar to yours would sow the seeds of doubt and I would quickly see the truth for myself. And react accordingly.

Cutting people off for twatty behaviour gets a lot easier with practice. Wink

Dahlen · 19/06/2013 23:09

BTW I'm really very, very sorry that you went through that. I hope you've been able to find a way to deal with it.

babyhmummy01 · 19/06/2013 23:11

dahlen I think until u have been on receiving end of abuse it is incredibly hard to truly understand, empathise or cut out the taunts in ur life.

Ppl inherently want to believe the best of each other, esp close friends, its only natural. Doesn't make it right, but it does help to not make me bitter

Original poster
mcmooncup · 19/06/2013 23:12

There definitely is truth there babyh. Some people witnessed some things, some people have just had things relayed to them.

I suppose I think there is an element of duplicity - they will say to my face "oh god he's such a twat..." bla bla, then the next thing I will hear they are meeting him for a drink.

I also completely agree that people cannot believe that they can be so wrong about someone - and of course, the abuser is generally Mr Charming - as my ex is.

I still feel hurt though despite all this. Just do. If I am completely honest I want them all to tell him what a twat he is.

I know.......never going to happen Sad

OP posts:
Original poster
mcmooncup · 19/06/2013 23:13

I'm sorry you went through that too babyh

OP posts:
babyhmummy01 · 19/06/2013 23:14

dahlen thank you. It wasn't easy and I still have the odd freak out but generally I am fab xxx

GiveItYourBestShot · 19/06/2013 23:17

"They may havefelt too awkward or unqualified to say anything. Interfering almost always ends up in a mess."

I was in an EA relationship for 3 years. One friend of us both got very pissed on a girls' night out, burst into tears and said "why are you doing this to yourself?" I think she was embarrassed the next day but she gave me the push I needed to realise it was a bad relationship and end things.

Afterwards lots of other friends said "thank God, he was a shit." And I said, next time you think that, please say something at the time, not after it is all over.

Sorry. Long boring anecdote. But if you are worried about a friend please try and talk about it.

babyhmummy01 · 19/06/2013 23:17

mcmoon thanks and likewise. U have every right to feel as you do but I am afraid u either need to cut them off if u can't accept it or accept that they will never choose and be grateful that u have escaped an awful situation.

Eventually Mr charming will fuck up and they will see for themselved