I want a relationship with my ten year old DAUGHTER

[99WitsEndAvenue]

I'm single parent with a ten year old daughter. From the moment she wakes up in the morning to the moment she finally stops annoying her younger sibling and falls asleep she is rude, provoking the younger dc, telling me I'm a crappy mother, that she hates me, I'm an idiot. There are repercussions to these things. But it is relentless. I take her phone or her mp3 player. Or she's not allowed to go on oloko. None of it ever seems to get through. She's never truly sorry. Just pissed off with me. Unlike other children she doesn't learn a lesson. She takes the punishment but is never contrite. She gets progressively more and more angry at me for DARING to teach her a lesson. I am advised by well-meaning mothers who do have much better relationships with their daughters how to handle her but I feel like crying cos it's what I'm doing. Consequences. There are consequences to her bad behaviour. But the rage that simmers in her that I have dared to punish her, that I dared to thwart her.

Her father was a very entitled man. He had npd. I'm beginning to worry that she has a personality disorder like he does. She is never grateful for anything, only angry that I'm not getting/giving her more just like her father was

The other day I lost it with her in public. I want a break from her. I have this fantasy that she'll miss me and come back to me and be nice.

Is she having early puberty, bullying, issues you haven't explored maybe?

So sorry you're going through this. :( I only have toddlers so not any help but I went through early puberty and this sounds just like me. I was just so angry and mum bore the brunt of it because I loved her the most in the whole world. I was just so full of rage, depression, thought I was ugly, too damn mature for my age etc etc. I couldn't express my frustration through anything but anger because I was too young to be drooling over boys and old enough to want to be dependant and independent at the same time. I was bullied for being too booksmart, had nothing in common with kids my own age but nothing in common with older children. So I had 'friends' but I had to put on a child like facade which seemed to always end with me exploding with rage and 'going for the kill' against my poor mother.

A year later I had my first period and things got slightly less worse.

I have a son who is slightly old than your daughter but he has been pretty much exactly the same over the last few months. Is she having problems at school at all? That's what my DS's issues have been recently and we have been working with his teachers to sort it. His behaviour has been much better since tackling things with the schools help. Although he can still be a stereotypical pre teen at times (yes he hates me occasionally too and has lost his xbox more than once!) he's been much better.
Maybe speak to school?

Hi Witsend

Just read your post, I'm not going to have a lot of advice in your situation, but my heart breaks for your DD. Your post reminded me of a show that used to be on where parent and children went to a house for a week or weekend to learn how to change parents and childrens behavior.

There was a little girl, younger than your DD on there with same type of issues, only perhaps worse. She was also violent to her mum. I can't remember the name of that program for the life of me atm. I will look it up after this post. But watching that episode/s of that particularly family may help. If I remember she was also a single mum. By the end of the week at the children's psychologist house, they were sorted.

I don't know much about personality disorders, but I (thought) they usually set in around puberty?? I could be wrong, someone here may know better?

I will end this so I can go find that telly show someone may chime in and know what I'm on about.

Lots of thoughts for you and your DD. I really hope you can get some help.

Has she always been like this?

Sounds like a battlefield. Sympathies. Is there anything she likes doing? Something she's interested in? Do you go off and do anything together ever? Is the only time she gets your undivided attention when she's being naughty? If you can engineer some (horrible phrase) 'quality time' to get to know each other as people and she gets your attention without being aggressive you might prevent it always being the same Punch and Judy show of her kicking off and you kicking back. BTW is Dad still in the picture? How does she behave with him? And what's she like at school and with other authority figures?

Ok found it, House of Tiny Tearways it the show. I will go back and try to find that particular episode with the little girl.

I have threatened to go and talk to her teacher. I want to know if she is happy at school. I think she is though. She has close friends. She bounces in to school in the morning and can't wait to get away from me. When I suggest that I might talk to her teacher she reacts as though I've said I am ...... sending her to a new school, military school or something. Such an over reaction.

She is quite thin and only showing the very first signs of development. Tiny tiny breast buds but that is it. So I don't think her period is around the corner. She is an angry girl though. I hate to say it but she is. I try to do positive affirmations with her 'the truth about me is that I'm clever' and then insert new positive adjective every day but she nipped that in the bud recently because it's all so "stupid". Of course it is. Everything is stupid. Argh. She is actually lucky. She is not just clever but has the ability to apply herself and do really well. She's also fearless and I can imagine her bullying before she would be bullied to be brutally honest with myself here. She has regular features and is conventionally pretty as well as being good at sport. So I'm struggling to figure out what she's so angry about. Yes I am a single parent but she sees her father and he loves her.

I'll be ok again in a while. I just need a break from her! and I can't see how that is going to happen.

Cogito, she is like butter wouldn't melt with the teachers. You should see the reports. Although I haven't had this year's yet obviously and it will be interesting to see if a little bit of attitude has crept in since last year.

With her Dad she is polite and respectful. I guess she can't risk being a horror with him because then he mightn't want to come again as soon. He would literally think oy vey can't cope with that..... So, for him she's good. For teachers she's good.

I am trying to teach her French for ten minutes a day. To begin with she was all gung ho but now she's losing interest. It's... can you guess! it's stupid! But yes, even though I feel like I shrivel up a bit when she looks at me, I need to react with her better. The thing is though she's a bit needy. You can sit there with her chatting for an hour, commenting on her homework, her drawings, listening, praising, and then I feel like I need to regroup and I'll take myself off for ten minutes, for 'space' and she is banging on the door feeling rejected.

Sounds awful for you both. The only experience I have (and im aware it s a very different situation) is with my dd who's 15 I have her by sgo and a couple of years ago she went through a very angry stage, she hated me and a friend said to me of course she hates you, she can hate you, she knows you love her more than anything and will never ever stop, so you bear the brunt of everything its 'safe' to hate and rage at you iyswim? It struck a chord with me.
Wag worked for us was some serious one on one time. We started jus spending time together with no one else there. Shopping, a meal out.....would this be a possibility? What does she like to do? Could you join her in a activity?

thanks overture

Mama1980, how often do you do that? I do go out with my dd on her own sometimes but not often enough I guess. More one to one. DO you think I should push the French lessons and the positive affirmations? both things she wanted to do to begin with, until she pronounced them stupid

She does do an activity that she loves but it's finished til September.

Sorry Witsend I'm not going to find it, too many.
I wish I could, she sounds so similar. If I remember rightly she just needed loads of love, she also was needy. If you have time and want to watch that episode I'm quite sure it was house of tiny tearways.

My heart goes out to you reading you last couple of post, you sound exhausted, and doing your best. Really hoping things get better for you.

I definitely try to make sure we do something one on one every week, even if its just watching a film together or getting a takeaway once my younger two are in bed. I used to do it religiously every weekend we would do something but now I don't really think about it, and she prefers to spend time with her brothers as well if we are going out these days.
I would personally not persevere if she has it in her head that the lessons are stupid, I would try something else and revisit it later. Could you maybe go shopping together or something, just windows shopping, have lunch and a chat away from all bones of contention and pressure, could be worth a try?

I would continue with the positive affirmations, plentiful spontaneous hugs, lots of I love you, I appreciate it when you do this, can I ask your opinion on that....etc

So, given total freedom of choice, what would she like to do and talk about with you? The 10yo girls I know are all rather 'little women' even though they're obviously little kids. They want to do grown-up things with the grown-ups and hate being forced to do little kid stuff with younger siblings etc. I'm not sure learning French is quite the right activity - could you go out to a nice cafe for tea and cakes? a manicure? - but I think time together is the right way forward

Incidentally my dd didn't respond and still doesn't to rewards or sanctions either. All she cares about is doing stuff together/my attention.

You could try this,

www.mumsnet.com/bloggers-network

It is a link about Oliver James and Love bombing. I know Oliver James promotes strong reactions on here though but it's worth reading anyway.

I hope you can all feel better soon.

I am now in my late thirties and had a similar childhood relationship with my mother. It wasn't until her death two years ago that I began to make sense of it.
My experience was different because I come from an extremely dysfunctional family and that dysfunction followed me through the school gates and therefore affected my academic performance and social standing. From what you've said I would guess - and it is just a guess - that your daughter feels that school is her domain - a place where she has friends, is liked by the teachers and receives praise for her achievements.
I second the advice for lots hugs and 'I love yous' - show her you love her. I really hope it gets better for both of you.

Ok they are still playing old episodes on Really, and new ones on BBC if you have a DVR perhaps try setting them up to record, and it may replay.

I really really wish I could find it for you, the girls sound much a like with their personalities. Might provide some insight. I will keep looking when I get time for you, if I do find it I will link here or send you a PM if that is ok?

Some of the child psychologist advice was what mama is suggesting but also how to teach her DD to be happy on her own, if I remember rightly, and also how to discipline her. It's been too long since I've seen that episode, reading your post brought it back to mind, I think it was in 2009/10 I seen it.

yes to focusing on positive reinforcement - rather than on negatives, threats and punishments...

scheduling your time away/breaks -use timers? "I am going to take a ten minute break, when the timer goes off i will be here" or set time each day when she knows you wont be available to her? (corresponding with times you will...)

I think the fact that she is good for her dad is very telling- children who are angry with a parent sometimes take it out in the other parent; usually the one they feel safest with. Put simply, she may be scared to show her dad how angry she is with him in case he leaves her (again?)- whereas she feels safe enough with you to know that you won't leave her, so can direct all her anger and resentment at you.

Can you ask the GP for a CAMHS referral for family therapy?

Sorry to assume so much from your posts; it's just one possible reason for her behaviour.

I really hear you on this one, I have a 9 going on 13 year old daughter too and she also has phases of being horrible to me/stropping about the place, although they are varied with being absolutely delightful and you don't always know which you are going to get.

There's a couple of things to say. I wouldn't worry too much about her dad and his problems being passed on, if you head over to the teenagers section of MN you will find lots and lots of parents in a similar situation, it's pretty normal for at least some stroppiness to manifest, many from lovely families in which there are not big problems or massive dysfunction- I have seen myself how some of my lovely unproblematic friends had terrible teenage siblings, all from the same household so it is not necessarily connected with that (it can be of course that is a reaction to a specific problem).

The other thing that stands out is that she is almost definitely in pre-puberty and hormones will be going wild. The average age of onset of menstruation is about 12 1/2 which hasn't changed that much over the past decades, but the onset of prepuberty (hormones breast growth, hair growth and general stroppiness) is much earlier, up to two/three years earlier, so by 10 she may well be into this timeframe as will many of her friends as well. If you talk with the other mums you may find they are all saying the same.

Also, you are a single mum and that's sooooo hard, because all that stroppiness isn't directed at two of you, but only one of you- you are essentially the container for all those emotions/stress of being a 10 year old and it's very stressful for you. I am on my own a lot (husband works away) and although I know it's not the same, I still find just doing all the emotional work on my own really exhausting. So, you do need to look after you during this time, go out with friends, have a friend to moan to, treat yourself so that you aren't too battered by it all.

As for what to do, I wish I had a magic solution or really knew what worked, but I am a bit clueless myself. I have done a really light form of love-bombing and it works incredibly well, recently I had a day out with each of my children, just doing what they wanted (all this French and affirmations is what you want to do and unless you need to do them for academic reasons, I might not think this worth battling over) and it really does help bonding, you can have a laugh, reconnect. It doesn't mean they will then be perfectly behaved, but it does make you feel better about them, and help them remember you are a human being with feelings who needs to be treated nicely too.

It seems odd that you say "she has nothing to be angry about" when her father has npd and she knows he would stop seeing her if she put a foot wrong. It sounds to me like she is testing your love to see how far she would have to push you before you would also reject her. Poor girl. Someone with a parent like your exh needs a lot of help and understanding. Not punishments.