After 23 years very unhappy and don't know what to do

[Donething]

Hi, I've lurked on here for some time on and off before having the courage to post and feel a bit guilty making my first post a long one about my worsening marriage instead of posting about children, bake sales, schools etc.

Some background: I met DH in 1989 and we married in 1990, some might say a tad too quickly, it was nine months but at the time we loved each other and were very sure and everything was great. I was 24, he was 23. However, early in our marriage (right from the word go) we started having sexual problems which I won't go into at this early stage. Suffice to say it didn't show me in a very good light to begin with, but his attitude didn't help either. I have difficulty with bodily contact and didn't like being hugged as a baby, and was naive in telling DH in no uncertain terms I didn't want sex, rather than being kind and diplomatic if I didn't feel like it. I also suffered pain on intercourse which was never fully explained or diagnosed. We had many arguments and we even saw a counsellor, who told him to leave me alone rather than asking for sex all the time (which of course didn't go down too well). For the next few years things seemed to balance out and our sex life improved massively (from my point of view anyway, maybe not his on reflection). We still argued on occasion when he thought he wasn't getting his entitlement but for the most part we worked through it and things were 'fine'. In all other aspects of our marriage things were pretty good, holidays, hobbies, working well together etc, laughing and being affectionate.

Fast forward a few years and we have two lovely DSs, one is now 13 and the other is 8 but has ASD and specific learning difficulties with disordered speech. The pain problems went after I had the boys. We still had sporadic problems but we worked through them. Suffice to say that throughout the years up to the present day there have been emotionally painful issues that I don't want to go into yet. In 2006 we bought a house an hour away from where we lived before selling our old one, and then financial problems began to take over with the big crash of 2008 and we both ended up getting quite depressed and talked about nothing but our money problems, but eventually after renting the old house out for five years, we did sell it but by then the real damage was done. DH's contract work started to dry up and we had endless rows.

DH's work has taken him further from home as the years have gone on, and now works away during the week, only coming home at weekends. I feel sure he is prone to depression, as many of our problems in the past have been exaggerated by his state of mind. However, that's no longer a good enough excuse. Fast forward to the present day, and things are worse than ever. He hates being away but instead of coming home at weekends and being happy to see me and the kids, he's like a bear with a sore head and is now bringing up all our old sexual problems like they happened yesterday, every Friday night and it's horrible. Instead of looking forward to weekends, I dread them. He reminds me of things I naively said more than 20 years ago, accuses me of never loving him, hating affection, telling me it's all my fault he can no longer approach me for sex because I pushed him away all those years ago, and how unhappy he is. I dread to think of the effect this is having on our boys. In fact the older one is very sensitive and has become withdrawn. It's a difficult age anyway but seeing his parents arguing every weekend (albeit with the door shut) and on the phone during the week must be so hard for him. He keeps asking us if everything's alright (which it usually is, on the surface, by Sunday ). He must hear some of what we say as his bedroom is directly above ours, and then he sees us being overly affectionate later on. We recently had a holiday in Scotland and the first three days were ruined because DH couldn't stop going on about our previous problems and how he can't approach me and how it's all my fault. I am at my wit's end.

Reading the above and imagining it from an outsider's point of view, it looks like I am the cause of all the problems due to my issues early in our marriage, and any sane person would have left early on because it's obvious we were never really compatible. I think there are rejection issues that stem from DH's childhood, which don't excuse his behaviour but might explain some of it. We are both so miserable at the moment, him because he's away all week and hating it, and me because I dread the arguments which always start the minute he walks in the door. He admits he doesn't know what happens to him during the week when he's away (dark thoughts etc), but it doesn't stop it all boiling over when he gets home instead of realising it and taking steps to prevent it. It's just torture and I think the only real option is to end the marriage before things get truly ugly and our son is badly affected (if he isn't already). Luckily DS2 is largely unaware of what goes on but even he can see that things are sometimes not right and he then craves attention.

I'm so sorry this is long. I know I have to end it and I am aware that, although I might have started the problems initially over 20 years ago, DH has never been able to let it go and move on. He seems to revel in opening up old wounds whenever he feels bad about something (in this case being away from home) and I feel bullied, victimised, sad and very lonely. I've only told a couple of friends but nobody in the family because I'm too ashamed. I know I'm largely to blame for the intial problems but in my defence, when I was doing ASD research for DS2 a few years ago, I recognised many ASD qualities in myself and ticked rather too many boxes for my liking. When I explained all this to DH, thinking it would be a revelation and would cure everything (Ha!) unfortunately it didn't and he thinks I use it as an excuse for not wanting contact and that I deliberately set out to ruin things. I'm so confused. I need to take steps to end things but I don't have a clue what to do. I know there are no quick solutions to any of this, but I do feel a bit better having got all that lot off my chest.

Thanks for listening, those of you that are still awake. I realise the above is probably very confusing (it is to me!) and I just wanted some support I suppose, though I don't actually know any of you yet. At the moment seems to be the only solution.

That all sounds very hard op and I can't think of a solution either, but you can't go on like this.
Firstly, I appreciate what it is like having a ds with asd, as I do too and well doing for coping all week on your own.
You must feel so stressed and all I can think of to suggest is relate-you can go on your own-do you have any time/babysitters?
Have you and dh discussed splitting up?
Could you have some space-he stays where he works for a coupl of weeks/stop the phone calls.
He is behaving very badly and really sounds like he needs serious help.
It's awful that your ds's weekends and holidays are being blighted.

" I need to take steps to end things but I don't have a clue what to do. "

If you've decided mentally (emotionally) that it's over then there are some practical next steps. I think you are right that you've spent a lot of your marriage being incompatible, you've been hit with some bad luck along the way, unresolved small problems have become large problems, and that this has now evolved into (on his part at least) resentment, bitterness and a really nasty kind of bullying. I think, once your partner actively & openly dislikes you, that's the time to call it a day. He may or may not be depressed but that's really no excuse.

The practical next steps involve getting information and support. For support you will need friends and family. I think it's important to have someone you can trust and confide in - but be selective.

A solicitor is a good place to start for information. Many offer a free introductory consultation in which you can get a reasonable idea of your rights and responsibilities post-divorce, arrangements for children, finances etc. Other places to consider are CAB, your local housing authority, benefits.... where applicable. Money is important... do you have your own source of income or savings? And then, once you have your information, you have to have 'the talk' with your STBXH where you break the news and start managing the end between you.

Good luck

It sounds from the outside that your marriage is over

And that he is trying to justify an existing or potential liason with OW

Thank you guys for your advice. I feel terrible this morning, sick and unable to eat anything. DH left for work on Monday in a reasonably optimistic frame of mind, but yet again now he's away he's being very cool on the phone, and yesterday when I was talking to him about general stuff he complained that he could have been talking to his mother or his sister because I wasn't saying anything personal enough. I don't know what he was expecting me to say given both our states of mind at the moment but it's not conducive to romance and if I try it comes out wrong and he doesn't believe I mean it. I can't win.

defineme - I know I can't go on like this. DS2 is actually a very good kid, and considering his ASD he's not a lot of trouble, thank goodness, as I know from other people's experience that it can be very stressful in itself to have a SN child. He plays happily in his brother's room (to DS1's annoyance sometimes!) so at least he isn't too demanding which helps a bit.

cogito - We talk about splitting up almost every conversation but he feels responsible for us all because I'm to all intents and purposes a SAHM. He keeps telling me it's a dangerous world out there and would hate for me to fall prey to predatory men! He needn't worry, the way I feel at the moment I would be happier for the rest of my life without one, but aside from that, he feels/knows he has to provide and thinks we can carry on as we are but with him living away in Lincoln, where he works, and we can carry on working as normal. We both draw a wage out of our limited company as I do all the admin etc. It's not a large wage and is supplemented by tax credits. I also have a transcription job which I do at home but doesn't earn very much either. I really am not sure if I could support myself if it came to it. I haven't worked in an office for years and am not confident that I would be able to get anything that didn't pay minimum wage - if I were to get through the interview which I'm not confident of either. I know it's something I'd need to address if I were to find myself needing a job.

We haven't officially agreed to split up yet and he was fine on the phone this morning (after I'd written the above comments) but I do spend a lot of time worrying if he'll be OK at the weekends. He's coming home on Thursday this week because we are going to a meeting on Friday to discuss a business idea, which he still wants to carry on with even if we did split (I'm not so sure about that at the moment) so hopefully he'll be in a better frame of mind and we won't have any issues this weekend. I just wish he'd work on them instead of succuming to the demons. It's so easy in my mind for him to come home and be nice (because he tells me he wants to) and then if we did decide to split at some point it would be a whole lot more amicable and I would be a lot more organised in my head. I am doing research but feel that if I were to see a solicitor there would be no going back, and I don't know if I could afford one at the end of it all, they seem to think they can charge a fortune for doing very little. I would rather go down the two year separation road if we could be amicable.

This is only my second post so bear with me. Looking at the above it looks a bit garbled and I am confused as to what to do. I don't want to split up, I just want him to go back to being his normal self - the trouble is, he's been like this so long, ever since he's worked away, that we've both forgotten what normal is.

Sadly it's that element of 'wanting him to go back to being his normal self' - vain hope that it'll all turn out OK without any actual input - that is keeping you trapped. That and your acute lack of self-confidence.

The trouble with living in such an unhappy environment where you are being insulted, criticised and bullied on what sounds like a regular basis is that it completely erodes your self-esteem. He opens up all these old wounds (as you call them) precisely to keep you downtrodden enough that you think you'd sink without him. He even tells you this to your face.... all this 'dangerous world out there' business is scaremongering crap. He's not worried about you falling prey to nasty men, he just doesn't want you to be happily independent. It's pure selfishness on his part and a very common tactic of emotionally abusive people.

I honestly think that, if you could get yourself away from this man for a decent period of time... as you say 'two year separation'.... you would quickly come to realise that there is nothing wrong with you and probably never has been. It is not your fault he behaves this way. He isn't depressed or damaged, he's just a bully.

Anyfucker - I'm pretty sure there isn't an 'OW' per se, but there have been temptations on his part and in 2006 after an incident at home (nothing major but in his eyes I ridiculed his affection) he started seeing a checkout girl from the local Tesco - no offence to checkout girls as they do a great job, but this woman was way below him intellectually, was lonely and looking for a man (even a married one) and he met up with her a few times but insists nothing physical happened. Whether it did or not it was still a betrayal. He confessed and got rid and as far as I know there haven't been any other incidences.

However, the big sticking point now: DH was with his ex-girlfriend for 3 years before he met me, but they split up because she was too much of a homebody and not very adventurous, i.e. didn't want to do the activities he liked, like skiing and walking and camping, lived miles away and expected him to do all the driving and picking up because she didn't drive herself. She was a very attractive girl, very tall and slim and when he started going out with me I couldn't believe he'd choose me over her. Another of my self-esteem issues that I should have dealt with I suppose. I was a bit jealous of her but knew in my heart of hearts he would have stayed with her if she'd been that great so it all settled down and she was forgotten about, which is how it should be.

About three years ago we were in a pub in the next village, and DH was buying the drinks and he was an awfully long time. Then he appeared with a tall, slim, attractive woman accompanied by her son, and they joined us for a drink and we all chatted. Yep, she was the ex-girlfriend staying at the hotel where we were drinking, on her way back home after a weekend with her son in Wales. Coincidence or what, they'd not been in touch, it was just one of those bizarre things. Anyway, the next day he invited her round with her son to have a drink in the garden, having cleared it with me first, and yes, she was lovely, very kind person but something seemed amiss. DH kept in touch with her and found out that she'd married not long after they split up and her not-so-DH was ill and has been for many years, and her marriage was truly awful in many ways. I didn't like that he'd kept in touch with her and kept it from me, I only discovered by accident when he left his phone out with a message on plain for all to see. I challenged him about it and he said she was just venting and needed someone to talk to every now and then. Apparently she's been a victim of domestic abuse/violence and he's offering a supportive ear! They're not seeing each other but if they're in touch by text or whatever and I'm not party to it, I feel uncomfortable about it. He doesn't seem to understand why I have an issue with it. I wonder what he says to her about us. Anyway, when I mentioned it a couple of weeks ago to see if he was still texting her, he said - get this - he feels responsible for how her life's turned out because he dumped her all those years ago!!!

He still says she just vents every now and then but as he guards his phone like a dog with a bone and sleeps with it by the bed, takes it into the loo, won't let me touch it etc, I know he's still hiding the fact that they're in touch, however innocent it is. I don't really care about that any more so long as it doesn't intrude on my life. He's not seeing her, as far as I know he's not 'sexting' her but he doesn't have any real close friends to confide in, and wouldn't even if he did. I think there is still some attraction there and some feelings of 'if things had been different' and I live with that. To be honest it's been overshadowed by our present problems and if he ever does decide to go off with her, I think I'd pack his case for him!

Cogito - thanks so much. You are right. The message above re the ex speaks volumes, doesn't it! I am slowly working out a plan but it won't happen overnight. You've given me some mental strength though and made me see things a little differently. I have a good friend I've confided in who knows everything and she's been through similar herself and knows all the right places to go to get help. I know I'll get through this one way or another but I'm still reluctant to involve my family at this early stage and admit things are going wrong because they're not that fond of him either (another story) and I couldn't stand all the 'I told you so' and LTB I would get. They would be supportive but they might just try and push me in directions I'm reluctant to go just yet. Just feeling a little bit stronger will help me to deal with things as and when they occur, whatever those things may be.

"I couldn't stand all the 'I told you so' and LTB I would get"

I've been there and I know exactly what you mean. It's embarrassing and unpleasant having to admit they were right and you were wrong all this time. But, like me, you're going to have to swallow a few 'I told you so' moments in order to be free of him and, in the grand scheme of things, it's worth it.

" I don't really care about that any more so long as it doesn't intrude on my life."

Newsflash... it is intruding. It's pretty obvious that he was after the checkout girl and now he's replaced you with this old flame. Secret texts and phone-calls, confiding in her and saying he feels all responsible for her?..... at the same time as he starts treating you even worse than normal. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Drinking a cup as we speak Cogito . I think I have stopped caring about it, which is why I say it doesn't intrude on my life. I've smelled a lot of coffee in the past few days but past things still hurt as I expect, mainly because I feel I should have done something years ago and didn't (familiar story?). I actually think now, having had time to reflect this morning and read your posts, that if he did say he was leaving me for her I would tell him to go for it. She would be leaving one disastrous relationship for potentially another one, given a few months, but is that my problem? Don't think so. So I really don't care.

I'm building up my resolve and I think I am going to have to make some enquiries. Our financial situation is complicated and I'd either have to 'leave' our company and find another job, on top of all the other stress, or stay with it temporarily and hope he doesn't start playing silly buggers. Or go on benefits to supplement my typing job, the money for which currently also goes into the company account but can easily be moved if I went SE. I've been offered a freelance job today which might lead to others, so it might be just what I need to get some independence. My accountant is visiting soon and I might have a word with him about what's best to do. Despite what I've said about H, he wouldn't leave me destitute because of the kids and I think we can manage not to start all-out war because he will be as relieved as I am. I know he wants out because he keeps telling me! Either that or he's being melodramatic and 'poor me' which he is prone to doing.

Funny thing is, he has this business idea which he really thinks will work and wants me on board with it whatever happens, even if we're no longer together, we'd just be business partners. I don't know deep down if that would ever work. On a professional level he seems to respect me and we do work well together, it's only on a personal level that everything fails. I've been non-committal on this so far. He seems to think he can have his cake and eat it. It would mean he would still have some sort of control over me, as the contracting money he earns would finance it and I would still be drawing a wage, but if he can manage just to be a co-director and not a nasty XH then it theoretically could work, but I'm sceptical as anyone would be. In the meantime I'm trying to stay strong, because a blubbering wreck is no good to anyone.

Practical stuff like finances, legal matters, etc can be quite a therapeutic thing to focus on when your world's being shaken up emotionally. If you lack workplace confidence, now might be the time to correct that. Nothing like throwing yourself into a new job to divert negative energy.

It's only my personal perspective but I don't think you'd find it easy to 'move on' if you were employed by you STBXH post divorce. He may respect you in the workplace for now but bullies love any opportunity to stick the boot in. So important to make a clean break from the past.

Finally, whilst I'm glad you're not a blubbering wreck, I'm slightly concerned about the fact that you seem so detached. Don't feel you have to stay strong at all costs because the stress that causes can make you physically ill.

You may be right about the working together, in fact I know you are, but I'm deliberately playing along for the moment so as not to arouse suspicion. He can't MAKE me work with him, can he, though I may continue to if it's to my advantage in the short term while I quietly go about my research. He would love it if I got a full-time job because then I would see how bad it is for him having to work all the time (poor thing, nobody else has work away from home except him), and it would bring more money in and he would then feel less guilty about leaving me, which maybe on reflection is a good thing! It won't help DS2 who needs me though, as he won't enjoy being shoved into after school club, holiday club etc when he has SN and wants to be with me. This is why I work at home but beggars can't be choosers and I need to find a solution that works for me and the kids.

I am detached to a large extent, in many ways, which may be what caused our initial problems - I know I have some sort of ASD, which, looking back over my entire life and not just my marriage, does help explain a lot of hitherto unexplained incidents and other people's attitudes towards me, not just my life with H. However, rather than revelling in it or relishing a 'label' I've taken the attitude that it's who I am and I can't do a lot about the fundamental parts of my personality other than learn from mistakes and try and engage with people more, on every level. I find social situations hard, eye contact is difficult and I HATE using the telephone or being the centre of attention. I don't always know how to react appropriately to certain situations and people have commented in the past that they either think I'm strange or miserable or shy. I don't like people being in my personal space without warning. I have to find ways of dealing with my issues. I don't have many friends and find making friends difficult, even online FGS - something must shine through that puts people off, maybe the fact that I write too much, who knows! Either way, whatever it is, if H is not being very understanding about my problems, even with hindsight, what hope is there for me? I do break down, I get very emotional and crave attention from him but at the same time I don't want it. This is me being objective about myself and not anything H might say - who doesn't believe it and would prefer to believe I deliberately set out to wreck our marriage rather than having something 'wrong' with me that I can't help and that he won't make allowances for and instead bullies me all the more for it. I think he might be a bit of a narc which is probably a recipe for disaster combined with a personality like mine. This might explain why I've dithered about for so long trying to be accepted by him instead of standing up to him. I don't even want to be that person any more, I just want to be me but after all these years I don't even know who I am. People see a sad, middle aged woman who never smiles or talks to anyone. I'm pretty sure that even with my personality quirks I was never this bad before I met H. I feel like I'm broken.