No sex. Help please

[Moresunplease]

I'm very new to mumsnet, only lurking on and off until now, so please bear with me...

The affection and intimacy is missing from my relationship with DH of 13 years. Neither of us is particularly demonstrative and sex wise we have always been a bit unbalanced. He has pretty much always wanted me to lead but I sometimes want more obvious passion from him. But that was a while ago, and his view was that's just the way he is. Now it just does not happen.

Last night (after many weeks of my on and off trying) DH said he doesn't know why he doesn't, but he doesn't want to have sex (argh) now or for the foreseeable. He says that he doesn't want it to be always like this but he doesn't know what the problem is or how to sort it. I've made it clear it's a 'we' thing and we are in this together. We have both been tired and stressed on and off for a few years ( we've talked about it), and we have had periods of intense difficulty (arguing about all sorts but lack of support/understanding/tolerance on both sides, I think sums it up). But we are getting on much better now, being more understanding etc.

We had some couple counselling last year which was a bit underwhelming but we stopped just before the counsellor broached sex (due to DH's work schedule, not the prospect of discussing sex, which I knew about but DH didn't as he hadn't been to that session due to his work schedule). I doubt he'll go again because even if we find a decent counsellor I suspect DH will not be able to make the time due to work. (I do work but much less than I did before I had DD, though that's another story).

Another layer of complexity (you may say idiocy/selfishness) is that I want to have another child (for my daughter to be/have a sibling) and due to a combination of our and my DD's age feel conception needs to be ASAP.

After a sleepless night (I read the mumsnet boards to keep me sane-thank you) I concluded that I should share with DH two things: the time pressure re a second child and that just having sex, even if we don't want to at first, might break the cycle and lead to being more relaxed and enthusiastic about sex. He said he will have a think (I meanwhile cling onto the possibility of hope this brings me and wonder if it's said to shut me up, which it probably is).

So it's unlikely that anything will now happen unless I do something-at least that's how it feels to me- but I'm completely powerless. I do want the relationship to work but I don't want an affection or sex free future.

Your advice would be welcomed.

That is so sad. I think your husband sounds depressed and a visit to the doctors together may help. My DH and myself were a bit depressed last year and we both began taking StJohn's Wort it really helped kick start our lives again. Not sure if it really works or if it was all in our heads. Mind you we both wanted to change the lack of sex thing. If your husband is happy not having sex then it may be different. Have you mentioned that you want another child, could this be putting him off, does he really want another child. Sorry I am not more help, sex is such an important part of a relationship, especially when you are not getting it, I know.x

He has been really honest by telling you he does not want sex now or in the foreseeable future. He can't put it any plainer than that can he? I really can't see a way forward. However sad this is, you can only leave him. Moving on might be your only chance of another child.

"But we are getting on much better now, being more understanding etc. "

I could be wrong, but it rather sounds as though he has (psychobabble warning for which I apologise) 'checked out of the relationship' emotionally. You may be getting on better now but it's almost as though he has rationalised it that he can cope with being married to you and maintaining a façade of family life ... maybe there's a 'for the sake of the children' thing going on, I don't know.... as long as sex is off the agenda as part of keeping an emotional distance.

Add up long working hours & a period of arguing followed by the enforced celibacy this has a lot of the hallmarks of cherchez la femme. He's certainly not being honest about something. This goes beyond getting back in the saddle, which seems to be your best idea. Sorry.

What do you get out of this relationship now, what needs of yours are being met here?.

You're getting on better because its all on his terms. This is really about power and control. He currently has all that.

You want the relationship to work (out of desperation perhaps?) but what is he doing exactly to achieve this end?.

Is this really the role model of a relationship you want to be teaching your child about relationships?.

There are so many threads on here about men not wanting sex. I don't think they are always about an OW on the scene either. It just seems that many men are asexual, have a low sex drive, can't be bothered/are lazy/no interest. They just give up.

Bringing another child into this marriage would be a recipe for absolute disaster, so I do hope you'll reconsider that plan.

Some people aren't motivated by sex . It makes no difference that this is a man. He's told you what the deal is and presuming that part of your deal at the start of the relationship was that there would be sex and affection, he's telling you he's breaking that deal now and doesn't intend changing his mind.

So you do have power and you do have choices.

You either accept your lot and be equally honest if you intend breaking your side of the deal (e.g. fidelity) or you recognise that this isn't just about sex and affection anyway.

He's not invested in your couple relationship at all. The failure to prioritise counselling over work should have told you that.

So it's likely he's in this relationship for other reasons. It's comfortable, he gets things done for him, he gets his child looked after, he hangs on to any assets you've bought together.

Now, he might be like that with any woman he was in a relationship with, or he's someone who likes to contract the sex and the romance out to someone else.

Your call.

Thanks for understanding.

It does sometimes feel as though he has checked out, though I know he hasn't. Fact is he isn't able to deal with it. It's tiring feeling like I have to do all the thinking but I think it just feels like that because I do a lot of the talking.

I definitely don't want my DD to think grown up relationships are unaffectionate.

I struggle with the work taking/ not taking priority issue. He's paying for everything at the moment and he has his own business.

I had another conversation this morning and he said 'but everything else is good isn't it?'. I said no and he was surprised. I was surprised he thought that. He said he loves me and is in love with me. Due to little people being about the conversation hasn't progressed much and will need to wait until later.

And I agree about not bringing a child into a problem relationship. I think it was that issue that prompted me to post - to be told what I already thought but was trying to ignore (to test the null hypothesis).

" He said he loves me and is in love with me"

Actions speak louder than words and you're fully entitled to respond to a statement like that with 'love is not enough'. I get the feeling from the description that it's all rather 'shoulder-shruggy' and the main message is 'that's just how it is' and you're expected to just park the sexual aspect of your personality/relationship, think yourself lucky that he pays for everything, and then forget all about it. That's what they call in the business 'a big ask'.

He isn't motivated to do better and, sadly, you may have to bring matters to a head in order to provide that motivation.

I think people in your position can be incredibly 'unseeing' about the painful realities of a relationship. That's not a criticism by the way, because I can understand why it happens.

It's because you want it to be true that he's in love with you and is invested in your relationship as a couple, that you believe it, especially if he's saying all the right things about his feelings towards you.

Plus it stops you from doing what you don't want to do; leave the relationship.

I bang on here a lot about actions and not words.

A man who doesn't want sex with you and shows no affection towards you really isn't in love with you. It would be so different if he was still affectionate, or treated you romantically, but he isn't doing any of those things.

A man who prioritises work or anything else for that matter over relationship counselling really isn't committed to solving the problems in the relationship.

Yes I think a lot of the last two comments is true. He does need to pull his finger out.

I had sort of put him in the 'rubbish at confronting relationship issues' category and left him there. I did say to him earlier that i think it isnt just the case that he is that way but that he has chosen to not talk about things/be that way. I do believe this but also that it's not east to get out of a bad routine.

I guess I need to broach it head on tonight. It's hard to know what is fair to accept, but perhaps that is just what will satisfy me.

'Fair' is nice in an ideal world but I think, set against the rather starkly selfish 'done deal' of a sex-free marriage that he's offering you, you shouldn't feel any obligation to compromise. He may be rubbish at confronting relationship issues but no-one in their right mind could think that was anything other than a non-starter.

My idea involves you initiating sex once more which is what you don't want but it might be well worth it as it would prove something definite. Forget the talk for now and act. (My suggestion is not meant to be intentionally vulgar or explicit but there's no other way to say it, I don't think.)

Choose an opportune moment and don't bother saying anything at all.
Start giving him a hj - or even better, a bj (most men would give the earth for them!) or a mixture of both. But a hj alone should do if you prefer to stick to that.
Needless to say, don't just launch into up/down movements! To begin with you'd need to give him some preliminary sensitive touching and fondling down there. That's important.
Now if he soon becomes erect, or even just gradually, with what you're doing to him down there he is then capable of having penetrative sex, probably capable of orgasming and possibly making a baby!
If he remains soft and limp after 10 or 15 minutes of your intimate attention .... well, he's being honest and really isn't able to have sex as he can't get physically aroused and there is a problem!
It wouldn't matter a jot whether he loves you or not, by the way. Nor would it matter a jot if he says he's tired. Most men would respond positively to this at all times!

He'll either become erect or stay limp even if it was a total stranger doing it. If you try this experiment you should get a result of some kind that should tell you something. You might then have a better idea of what to do.
The far more usual situation is the wife refusing to have sex and therefore she is the one with all the power and control.

Ahem.

I don't think this about 'what's fair to accept' OP.

Unless you mean is it fair to accept being in a relationship with someone who just doesn't view you as his romantic and sexual partner - and has told you that he's never going to be any different.

This relationship just isn't doing what it says on the tin is it? If this was sold as a marriage, the trading standards office would be involved. You might as well be flatmates and co-parents.

But it's not a romantic relationship at all - and he's said it's never going to be.

You can't change that because you can't change someone's feelings. You can only make decisions about your own and the sort of life you want in the future.

No idea what to suggest really since I have similar-ish problems.. but to give you my DP's perspective - a lot of the time he is too tired and stressed to be bothered about sex. In theory, he wants to still, and when we discuss it, he doesn't want a relationship without sex, but when we get the opportunity, after long days either at work, or with the children, after usually broken nights, he is so tired he can't even be bothered to care about not wanting to. He says he barely has the energy to scrape through the day, so having the energy to be as kind and loving and considerate to me, to the children etc. as he ought to be is hard enough, let alone anything else. I understand this, and I also believe he does still care about the relationship, and love me, but is not coping with all the other demands of his life, and where something's got to give, this is it.

What I'm trying to say is that it seems to me, without wanting to get blasted for generalising about men, they are on the whole less comfortable full stop about discussing their feelings, and often would rather close a conversation down in some way than go through it for what may be several hours. Perhaps that is what he is doing? I sort of agree with arrowsofrain, lol, in that trying something rather than talking about it might be an idea. See badinage what I mean about some people being more inappropriate??

I can identify with a lot of this. My partner had diabetes which caused erectile dysfunction. The awful thing was he didn't seem to bothered in trying to satisfy me in other ways. He made half hearted attempts at looking into getting help but I felt he gave up. After several conversations i left him, 3 months before we were meant to get married. It was the right decision. But we didn't have kids. I'm now in a relationship with a wonderful man and we have a brilliant sex life. He can't understand why my ex didn't make every effort to sort it out. He said he would have done everything comes anything to sort out the problem. Maybe you need to tell him that you will not tolerate the situation. I think his attitude will speak volumes. Good luck!

No, not really. Sorry.

I don't think this thread is about sex really. But jumping this bloke and trying to seduce him wouldn't be appropriate at all, especially as he's made it clear he's not interested. He's got the right not to be molested and 'cajoled' into something he's said he doesn't want to do.

Just as the OP's got the right to say 'fuck that for a game of soldiers' and sod off to find someone who does want sex and romance with her.

Openly and transparently though.

I took a lot from each of your replies. Thank you.

I broached the subject again but differently - more firmly/less tlc, still showing understanding but being more clear about my side of things (without feeling like a nympho after reading this thread). He talked openly and clearly (without being prompted/questioned every step of the way - a criticism of me more than him) saying the (perhaps usual for others, but I've not really heard it from my DH) it isn't a reflection on how he feels about me, he's tired when he goes to bed at night. So suggested we set an alarm to wake up earlier than our DD.

You're right, the sex bit (i.e. lack of) wasn't a) the cause or b) the solution but really it was/is about talking, communication, respect, consideration, caring etc. Just talking in this way increased our connection and I feel things are back on track, as does he.

I'm glad you've talked, but how does this explain the lack of affection towards you?

Or his general lack of investment in your romantic partnership?

Glad things are improving and you have found a more effective way to talk to him about it. good luck.