Apologies from the OW

[Mosman]

I know this isn't typically recommended but I thought I'd share something I actually found quite therapeutic.

After I'd calmed down and composed myself somewhat. Having public ally named, shamed and called them all the names under the sun, I emailed the two other women I had contact details for.

I told them the impact they'd had on both me and the children and they both unreservedly apologised.

Given my behaviour they certainly didnt have to, I honestly feel this did me more good than "dignified" silence whichay have given the impression I didn't care or let them continue with their lives thinking they'd got away with it and maybe doing it again to some other poor married woman.

Anyway just my thoughts on the subject.

Don't lump me in, please, MrsSpagBol. I am not at all in favour of affairs. I don't see marriage as outdated either, I'm married. If my husband had an affair, our marriage would probably end. I like to think that I wouldn't negate him as a person nor see the whole of our life together as some sort of sham. It wouldn't have been. Easy to say, difficult to do. I don't know how I would react but I would consider myself to have really missed the point if I were to start salivating over the platitudes that would make me an object of pity and more importantly, ultimately hold me back from recovery.

What I don't like is seeing women villified - or just people in general really - for their conduct in marriage or relationships. I despise the silly comments that 'do the rounds', ie. 'once a cheater', 'they'll never be happy and don't deserve to be', 'they've wrecked the childrens' lives'... ad nauseum. I can understand why a partner who has been cheated on is bitter, perfectly understandable, but to believe this tripe and then not see it come to pass (because it IS tripe), is damaging in itself - to everybody concerned, including the children of the partners concerned.

Where a mistake is made and you become aware of it - and make the apology of your own volition - it's exactly the right thing to do. To make a coerced apology is pointless and there is a distinct (and not at all subtle) difference.

Very good question Post. Quite difficult to say as very much depends on the circs.

For example, if the OW did not know the person was married, maybe she could make the decision to not continue the affair, ask the cheater to conclude his current r'ship and then perhaps continue.

If the OW knew the person was married, decided to continue, and then received an email from an obviously hurt woman, she could perhaps respond - with compassion if she feels it, without rudeness if she doesn't?

I don't necessarily think she can do anything to cover over the hurt caused entirely.

I am also not 100% sure that I personally would seek an apology.

I guess the the point I have been trying to argue all along is that the OP, after much consideration, decided to seek an apology. She then received one, which she found healing/beneficial in some way.

Then you and other posters come on and basically piss on her, ranging from Tick tock saying she is a "bit of a twit" etc and then you now saying "a lot of people think marriage is outdated" blah blah.

I guess I don't understand why, when someone is clearly hurt, you feel the need to come and heap, to quote your phrase "more coals" on their hurt.

The OP never prescribed this method for anyone else, she merely detailed something that had worked for her. Then all you lot, come on her thread, and start saying how it's so mean that the OW is excluded from the sisterhood. I find it repulsive. You are entitled to your views, but if you are about common decency, is this the thread to share them on?

Lying

"I don't know how I would react but I would consider myself to have really missed the point if I were to start salivating over the platitudes that would make me an object of pity and more importantly, ultimately hold me back from recovery."

Well that's your view. The OP didn't ask you how you would act. Nor did she prescribe her actions as what you should do if you found yourself in the same position.
She described how she felt, and how she acted.
I don't think it's any less judgemental for you to come on here and describe that as "TRIPE" - you are not in her shoes. You've never been, and you never will be.

So how is it right for you to villify her?

I would just like to point out, again, that the OP did not seek an apology. She wrote to the OW to tell them exactly what their part in her husbands affair did to her and her family, they then apologised. At no point was it coerced, the emails could safely have been ignored by the OW if they chose to.

My comments haven't been in respect of Mosman's posts but in response to some of the others that have found their way onto this thread. I don't think it is helpful to perpetuate the myths and pass on the trite statements as if they actually meant something. Singularly unhelpful and actually, I'm repulsed by those because they do real harm.

OP did exactly the right thing for her; I'm glad that she derived something positive from it and can now move forward with her life.

Nobody is being rude on this thread, MrsSpagBol, please stop making it about 'them and us'... and you are not the arbiter of 'common decency' either.

I think when you post on MN you are making yourself open to being challenged or disagreed with. that's it value - to hear others views and perspectives but lets face it, you might not like them!... its very clear that many OPs here don't agree (and find offensive in the women hating tones) a lot of your views expressed here. I think you are entitled to express your views on MN but so I am I... but if you cant stand the heat, get out of the kitchen

Lying

"please stop making it about 'them and us'"

"and you are not the arbiter of 'common decency' "

[hmmm]

Really have no idea what you are on about. Have not used those words, or suggested that, in any of my posts.

MrsSpagBol... I'm not villifying the OP, not at all. Just wanted to make that clear. My view of platitudes is that they are just that; and useless to boot. You don't know what experiences I have had anymore than you know more than what OP has posted about.

Strictly speaking, OP hasn't asked for anybody's views yet here they all are. All I see here are differing views. It's a chatboard, albeit a more serious one and nobody is disparaging the OP at all that I can see and this thread doesn't need a 'custodian'.

MrsSpagBol... "Then all you lot, come on her thread.... It's only on MN, and if you are an OW, that you are somehow exempted from this, per ticktock, lyingwitch et al". Clear enough for you?

Bogeyface... Noted that OP didn't ask for one although I think it was solicited still; I was talking in abstract really about coerced apologies as I don't see their value.

"All I see here are differing views."

Right.

So you can post, but me, not so much?

You've been the one telling people to stop posting here, MrsSpagBol, nobody else did that.

Oh my goodness Lying, seriously? I did not tell anyone to stop posting. I responded to the posts about "lauded decency" saying I didn't see how it could be impressed upon people to be decent to the OW, when I felt it was being cruel and ergo "indecent" to the OP.

That is not telling anyone to stop posting, it's my view - phrased as a question - about how to reconcile those two viewpoints.

You just seem to have an issue with me personally. You are not actually addressing my points, just personalising your attacks on me. Quite strange.

I agree with Lying - what she is saying is fair and reasonable

I disagree with Lying and Ticktock - I find what they have said unreasonable.

?

MrsSpagBol

'You are entitled to your views, but the OP is obv firmly in one camp and you in another so just go and state your views elsewhere!'

Skyler please quote in such a way as to give complete context, it's a bit pointless to single out one particular line. It might even be better to quote the conversation in it's entirety so that it can be clear what I was responding to.

Otherwise you may as well pick out any random line from any of the 166 posts on this thread.

also some of the MNers on this thread are very active on MN and regularly post really nasty attacks on OPs on topics such as where OPs are having affairs or OPs whose partners have affairs and where the advise is always "dump the bastard" and similar.
obviously "the moral code of the sisterhood" excludes "live by the sword, die by the sword"....

Off out now, but Lying Ticktock and Skyler - I note your views. I still don't agree but will be leaving it there now.

My intention was to state my point of view in the forum of a discussion - if I've posted anything against this, accept my apologies.

It seems to be in context to me.

looks like someone left the kitchen...

looks like someone left the kitchen...

Wow. You must be so proud.

I don't blame the OW, and I don't hate her, but I did email her, and yes, it was cathartic. I just said that I was sorry things had ended this way as I loved my husband very much, but if he wanted to leave I wouldn't stand in his way and I was walking away. I wished her luck, but warned her it wouldn't end well. It didn't, he treated her very badly, and everything I had warned her about happened. I hope she has learnt from the experience that other people's husbands come with a lot of baggage and are not a free meal ticket.

MrsSpagBol - Mosman posted presumably because she wanted responses or comments. This is MN afterall. I have direct experience, so think I have a valid point of view. I'm not having a go at Mosman, I'm just expressing my own point of view and relating my own experience.

I personally cannot think of a single thing my ex-husband's current wife, the OW, in my particular case could do to make amends and no apology she ever made could even come close to meaning anything when she knew he was married and had children. If you think there are words that adequately cover assisting in the downfall of a marriage and break up of a family, let me know what they might be. My H's own apologies were also pointless - because he wouldn't have been saying them unless he'd been found out. He had to show me he was sorry by trying to make our marriage work & he just couldn't do that. So even though he said he was so desperately sorry, told me he loved me, said he wanted to be with me and the DCs - it mean't nothing because he couldn't actually do it.

I had always thought actions counted more than words, but the actions of ex-H made me really believe it.

I'm really glad that this experience helped you Mosman and I'd like to thank you for sharing it with others on Mumsnet. I regret that some posters have felt the need to criticise your actions in such cruel and insulting terms occasionally, but I think the thing that's most helpful to take from this experience is that although this thread might suggest otherwise, not all OW feel completely irresponsible for their part in events and not all OW lack empathy or have difficulty relating to women. From their point of view, your actions will probably have helped them enormously too.

Most logical people understand that if someone is engaged in a joint enterprise that will cause harm and pain to others, there is some responsibility to bear. It is a principle of law that no-one has difficulty understanding, except (somewhat illogically) when it comes to this thorny issue. Taking that responsibility or at least one's own share of it is the first step to healing and forgiving oneself, but being given the opportunity to convey that to a person who was harmed by one's actions and being given the platform to make an unreserved apology can be extraordinarily helpful.

My advice to you is to continue to be willing to share positive experiences like this because they will help many women in the same situation. Regarding the irrelevant and hurtful responses, the most constructive way of dealing with them is to consider what agenda a person might have before posting. Before that vital stage of taking personal responsibility for joint enterprise, it's common to have defence mechanisms in place to excuse either past or current behaviour, or to maintain hopes and beliefs about a current relationship. The women you corresponded with are hopefully further along the line and with luck, you will all have learnt something and can now start healing.

Post thanks for your post.

I appreciate you explaining your point of view, and I accept your experiences. I hope you can see that I also have mine, which I don't necessarily want to detail.

I was responding mainly to the idea that seeking or wanting an apology was in someway undignified or made one out to be weal or bitter or a twit.

In my view, there are many responses to indidelity, and what os valid or helpful to one may or may not be to another. So for you I completely accept that for you an apology might be unhelpful, but for me and the situation I have in mind, the OW's apology would not have fixed everything, but it would have been beneficial.

Regardless, I am glad you found peace in your situation.