Apologies from the OW

[Mosman]

I know this isn't typically recommended but I thought I'd share something I actually found quite therapeutic.

After I'd calmed down and composed myself somewhat. Having public ally named, shamed and called them all the names under the sun, I emailed the two other women I had contact details for.

I told them the impact they'd had on both me and the children and they both unreservedly apologised.

Given my behaviour they certainly didnt have to, I honestly feel this did me more good than "dignified" silence whichay have given the impression I didn't care or let them continue with their lives thinking they'd got away with it and maybe doing it again to some other poor married woman.

Anyway just my thoughts on the subject.

[AnitaManeater]

I had apology from the OW. She says she doesn't know why she did it as years earlier, she had caught her ex in bed with another woman. Maybe she was looking for sympathy from me by telling me that? It made me feel sick. If you knew the pain you would never inflict it on someone else. My OH is to blame but she was complicit and fully aware of the facts.

She will get her comeuppance.

[Bogeyface]

Optional I am not sure I expected it, but I was fucking disgusted when I didnt get it, if you know what I mean.

It was the fact that she had been cheated on, her husband and his OW had put her through exactly what she and my husband were putting me through. I think it was the total lack of empathy to galled me. She knew what it would do to me, and then did it anyway.

If I expect sisterhood from any woman it is the woman who knows my pain. A MIL who knows what it is like to have a nightmare MIL and who would go out of her way to be loving and supportive to her DIL. A friend who went through PND being practical and emotional support to the friend who is currently going through it. A woman who survived an abusive relationship helping other abused women to escape.

A woman who had her world torn to pieces by her cheating husband telling her married ex to go fuck himself when he tried it on.

You know?

[fuzzywuzzy]

Pardon my ignorance but when a couple are in a relationship with children and a house and shared finances, I personally would presume they both want the family life thing nice house etc, it's even more cemented by marriage vows.

Surely if one party did not want that, the couple would not be living together, most certianly not married!

Such a strange mindset.

I personally, do live my life and try and treat people as I would wish to be treated, I value kindness greatly as a human trait. I would never knowingly cause another woman and mother the pain and humiliation I suffered or read about on the boards here. I didn't need to experience it myself to arrive at that mindset either.

Fwiw, twatface didn't want to divorce either, it was rather amusing listening to him ranting on about how the whole divorce was wholly unneccessary in the witness stand in court.

[optionalExtras]

I understand, bogey.

Definitely different when she has been in those shoes. She could hardly claim naivety...

FWIW, I doubt she much likes herself after what she has done. Heaven knows how she justified that to herself. She might feel that she's got her revenge but at what cost to her self-respect?

[Bogeyface]

I dont think she hates herself tbh. I think she saw an opportunity to leave her marriage (she had an exit affair with her current husband to leave her first husband) and jumped on it, literally!

She will do it again, of that I have no doubt.

[Charbon]

Focusing first on what Mosman decided to do in contacting the OW for a moment, this can be a risky but ultimately healing experience for the faithful spouse and I'm very glad that it proved to be so in your case Mosman. Often, the OW or OM in these situations can take on mythical properties in the minds of people who've been hurt and it can be a helpful exercise to communicate in a calm and factual manner because apart from the opportunity it gives to correct any misapprehensions on either side, it also tends to divest the other person of the power s/he is still wielding in one's life.

I would add that very few OW/OM who are now distanced from the infidelitous relationship concerned, espouse this view that they had no responsibility for the hurt caused to themselves or others. However, it is a common and understandable delusion held by people who are at heart selfish and are poor at taking personal responsibility generally, those who have remained in the affair relationship and in those who are on the precipice of an affair or are currently involved in one.

Concentrating on the more general points made, it is an astonishing fallacy that affairs only happen when there is relationship discord. In fact, even if there is relationship discord (as there will always be at some point in a marriage) this will never, ever be the only reason an affair happens.

I really liked an an analogy a poster once shared on a Mumsnet thread, which had come directly from her personal therapist. The therapist said that when a vehicle is involved in a serious collision, an investigation takes place to reconstruct what happened. In the vast majority of collisions, driver error is the primary cause. However, even when this has been proved to be indisputably the case, it sometimes emerges that one of the vehicles had an unrelated fault, such as a balding tyre. In some collisions, that balding tyre might have been a contributory factor, in others not at all. But it would be as iniquitous to say that the presence of a faulty tyre was the sole cause of the collision as it would be to say that an unsatisfactory relationship is the sole cause of an affair. And in some collisions, the tyre issue wouldn't have been a factor at all, just as a normal, unexceptional relationship is very often not the determining factor in whether an affair will occur.

The ultimate determining factor resides with the individual who chooses to have an affair or to become involved in a triangular relationship.

The starting point in all affairs is what life coping mechanisms an individual possesses. These vary enormously from person to person but simplistically, whereas an emotionally healthy person will boost their life esteem through healthy, slow-releasing boosts such as those derived from partners, friends, family, their careers or their talents - an addictive or egotistical personality will reach for 'quick fixes' such as affairs, gambling, substance misuse or a sex industry experience. Likewise people who are depressed, bereaved or meeting a life crisis will often choose an affair as a quick 'high'. The quality of those very differently motivated individuals' sanctioned relationship can have very little bearing on their choice of coping mechanism. The common denominator however is that those individuals (sometimes only temporarily) have poorly functioning coping mechanisms.

[Mosman]

An excellent post.

I can honestly say I've gone from wanting to boil their heads to almost apologising for his behaviour (not quite though) - maybe I should have seen that from day one but I was told they knew all about me and the children - which they did - but accurate picture, not on your nelly.
They were naive to believe his version of events but equally neither were mothers so no experience to draw upon that would have every Mn'er's bull shit radar glowing.

I'm glad I made contact, that's all I can say to anyone else considering a similar idea, I'm also glad I waited a while though.

[DottyboutDots]

I might be the only one but who thinks this but infidelity doesn't bother me that much. The only reason that i wouldn't do it is in case it bothers my DH enough to leave me over. If he was unfaithful and discreet it genuinely wouldn't bother me, I don't feel competition with other women for him. Now, if he wanted to leave the marriage, i'd be hacked off as we are a committed unit with our precious children and lovely lives.

In RL, I've known a few adulterers but they don't get scorned, people remain their friends. I'm not sure why but have an inkling that people like to have sex with others and are inherently selfish and other people understand that.

[ticktocktammy]

I also know couples that are "french" and turn the blind eye to their partners wanderings. not sure it would be for me but most seem to separate out the sex and their happy family live and friendship with DP.
also most people know there are two sides to the story when someone has been unfaithful and have seen the unhappy marriages behind acrimonious breakups. as I said earlier, the "toxic divorcee" does not get to hear whats said once she leaves the room...
and another comment: why does all chatter about the "sisterhood" not relate to the OW? seems OPs feel its ok to dehumanise another woman whilst calling for women to have solidarity but the solidarity only extends to virgins brides ("I only had sex with one man and now am in a STD clinic" how offensive is this thinking) but not the whores? how 1950 and deeply oppressive is that thinking about women and sexuality...

[Mosman]

Dehumanise her ? No he did that, in contacting her and pitying a voice to the photograph and the story it was quite the opposite as I said almost felt sorry for her.

As for turning the other cheek all very well providing everyone knows where they stand, not ok if one party is being monogamous.

[ticktocktammy]

Mosman - I actually thought the letter idea quite good if the idea was to have a genuine exchange of experiences. that can be a very healing thing. I see from your many MN threads that your story is quite complicated too.
but some of the other comments here are real women-hating stuff that is really offensive and hypocritical where women are then also calling for female solidarity.

[Bogeyface]

Why is it women hating to expect the OW (or man come to that) to stand up and take responsibility for her actions? Why is it women hating to expect the same level of decency, empathy and compassion I show other women?

I didnt say that the sisterhood doesnt extend to them, they removed themselves from it by their actions.

[ticktocktammy]

well bogeyface, that confirms exactly the point I was making!

[Bogeyface]

Does it? I dont think so.

If you treat someone like shit then you cannot be called a friend to them. A woman who treats another woman like shit is not a sister to her, surely?

[MrsSpagBol]

Ticktock I can't comprehend the point that you are trying to argue?

OW who go against the basic moral code of sisterhood ie DO NOT FUCK SOMEONE ELSE'S HUSBAND, must now be included in the very same sisterhood or else we are apparently "women hating" and "deeply oppressing"?

What?

If you want to be in "the sisterhood" then don't go around destroying lives of the very same "sisters" you want to be in "the sisterhood" with - surely this is obvious?

You want respect for the OW and sympathy for them but it's ok for them to treat everyone else like sh*t?!
????

[ticktocktammy]

... the "basic moral code of the sisterhood"??? and those "who go against the basic moral code"... honestly, how pompous is this "sh*t"

[Mosman]

Isn't it just human decency I mean some men fuck other women's husbands too and I hold them in the same esteem.
Somebody said there's a special place in hell for women who do other women over - that gives me a nice fluffy feeling sometimes - and not even related to all this shite.

[Bogeyface]

Some of us believe very strongly in the sisterhood, and that yes, there is a basic moral code that we should try to live by.

That you can't see that is very sad.

[MrsSpagBol]

Ticktock YOU are pompous!

"seems OPs feel its ok to dehumanise another woman whilst calling for women to have solidarity but the solidarity only extends to virgins brides ("I only had sex with one man and now am in a STD clinic" how offensive is this thinking) but not the whores? how 1950 and deeply oppressive is that thinking about women and sexuality..."

This thread was started by someone who thought she was in a monogamous relationship and found out she was being lied to; NOT by someone who was in an "open relationship" so what exactly do you expect?

if you don't subscribe to the base principle that someone in a monogamous r'ship should not be cheating then why are you commenting on this thread?

Start your own thread about open r'ships or similar, but stop p*ssing on someone else's pain. It's pathetic and disrespectful.

You are entitled to your views, but the OP is obv firmly in one camp and you in another so just go and state your views elsewhere!

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

I think there are an awful lot of platitudes spoken around the 'wrath of infidelity'. 'Special place in hell'? Really? Who thinks this stuff up? It does nothing more than give a false sense of righteousness. Same with 'comeuppance, karma' and the other nonsense. 'Basic moral code of sisterhood' is ridiculous. Everybody works to their own code. An OW/OM may have a different code in terms of sanctity of marriage but you only have to read threads on MN to see that the concept of marriage is deemed outdated and pointless by many. We should take some responsibility for that slide maybe?

I wouldn't have asked for an apology myself because if you have to ask for it, it's not worth having. That goes for anything really, in my book anyway.

I don't believe that there is an OW/OM out there who seriously and consciously weighs up the risks before the act. I believe that they almost 'sleepwalk' into it; they act and believe that they will not be caught. Many are not and the husbands/wives/children are unaware.

I too dislike the 'women hating' tone. It takes two to tango. Most people are inherently selfish (not just OW/OM). There is no 'league table' of decency and anybody who thinks there is is deluding themselves. I have a friend who has just got out of a horrendous affair; she got badly hurt. She's a kind and decent person and whilst her actions in conducting this affair were questionable - and wrong - that changes nothing of her as a person.

I see the judgemental opinions spouted on this board and others and wonder when the decency so lauded, will actually 'kick in'?

People do wrong things, they make mistakes. Hopefully, they don't repeat them and learn from what they did without the need to heap coals on their heads.

[PostBellumBugsy]

Here, here LyingWitch.

[DottyboutDots]

With you there, LyingWitch.

[RatRatRat]

I know two people, both married with children who live almost across the road from each other who have been having an affair for years. They used to sleep together before they met their respective partners, had a break of a few years while they did the marriage/children thing and then carried on like nothing happened.

Nobody else knows as far as I'm aware although I am a friend of hers and only vaguely of his, so I'm not sure if his friends know. They don't want to be together, didn't even when younger and single, I just don't know what it is with them. I try not to think about this situation, I wish I didn't know.

[MrsSpagBol]

"but you only have to read threads on MN to see that the concept of marriage is deemed outdated and pointless by many"

Fair and fine but why stay in one then, without informing your partner that this is now /has always been, your view?

"People do wrong things, they make mistakes. Hopefully, they don't repeat them and learn from what they did without the need to heap coals on their heads"

Of course they do. In all other situations in life, when you make a mistake and are aware of it, you apologise and/or try to make amends.
It's only on MN, and if you are an OW, that you are somehow exempted from this, per ticktock, lyingwitch et al

[PostBellumBugsy]

MrsSpagBol - how do you see the OW making amends for the affair?