I'm not even sure where to start

[catgirl1976]

DH and I have been together about 15 years, married for 5. We have a DS aged 18 months.

About 3 years ago, DH lost his job. Since then he hasn't worked. This had some positives around us having a child as it meant he got to spend a lot of time with him etc. He is an excellent father and adores DS.

However, DH has steadily become more depressed and isolated over the 3 years. He is now at the point where he has no job, no friends, no social life, never goes out, never wants to do anything and his confidence is at rock bottom. His family live 300 miles away and he is not hugely close to any of them.

For a long time I have been trying to get him to go to the GP but he won't. He has a history of depression since childhood. He is clearly depressed. He also drinks way too much.

We have had relationship problems for a while. I work FT. DH doesn't work at all. He looks after DS two days a week whilst I am at work but the other three DS is in childcare or at my mums so he is in the house on his own all day. He doesn't do much in the way of house work at all, or look for jobs, just plays PC games. This has caused on-going issues between us as I am exhausted. I get up with DS 6 days a week and he had been going through a really early waking stage. The split of things has been really unfair and it has been getting on top of me.

This came to a head on Friday night. DH and I had watched a film and shared some wine. I had been up since 6:30am and at work all day. DH get pressuring me to stay up later and later to have some 'time with him'. We eventually went to bed about 1:30am and I was exhausted and knowing I would have to get up with DS.

DS woke about 3am. I tried to wake DH to go and settle him as I was too tired and would have to get up with him in a couple of hours. I couldn't wake DH because he was drunk. I have no excuse for this but I lost the plot and started hitting DH (lying down in bed, sort of flailing at him IYSWIM). DH did wake up, settled DS but we had a huge row and all my built up resentment came out.

The next morning, I got up with DS about 7:30. DH woke up about 9:30 and decided he wanted access to my facebook account. I refused for a bit but the row became intense and DS was there so I gave him my password.

DH went through all my e-mails. I have been in contact with my ex for several years and we keep in touch via e-mail and play Scabble on facebook. DH has know about this and has been ok with it. However, in my e-mails there was (several months ago) a period where my ex and I exchanged a few very emotional emails regarding our break up. (It was messy and I had an abortion). There was no suggestion in these e-mails we wanted to get back together (we don't), but they were emotional and personal. The rest of the e-mails are pretty banal (how's work etc). There is no sexual content in them, although we might have some carry on style banter when playing scrabble (e.g, you came first again? You've not changed etc). Childish and I will admit it is sort of flirty but there is no intent behind it on either side.

The last couple of e-mails between us however have cause an issue. I was in London the other week which is where my ex works. We vaguely made noises about meeting up for a coffee although in the end neither of us could manage it as our schedules clashed. My meeting got moved when I was down there so I e-mailed my ex and said "I could meet you for lunch today". He emails back he couldn't as he had been caught up. End of. He emailed me later that night when he was on his train home asking what I was going to do in London that evening and I replied I hadn't decided and was at a loose end as I was on my own

DH took those to mean we HAD met up. I think he now accepts we didn't but the is still furious that I did not tell him. I said there was nothing to tell him as we didn't meet up. He thinks I should have told him I was planning to (but I wasn't as we already knew we couldn't meet up due to both being too busy). If I had told DH we would have told me I couldn't and it would have caused a huge row, so given we didn't meet I didn't think there was anything to tell.

DH went ballistic and smashed up the house. I had to get my parents to come and take DS to the park. We had a huge row.

We have managed to talk and get to a point where we are talking and DH has agreed to go to the GP on Monday (I had phoned 111 at one point as he was talking about killing himself but he wouldn't speak to them or go to hospital). DH has also agreed to go to relationship counseling. We have both agreed we want to fix things. DH is in a sate and has been sobbing a lot. I am very worried about him. He has changed my facebook log in so he has my password and set it so he gets an email on any activity and this morning I noticed he has been playing Scrabble against my ex on my log in (so pretending to be me) which is just weird.

I am sorry this is so long and I don't even know what I am asking. I want to fix things but I don't know where to start. DH is still furious with me and saying he can't trust me, I feel like he is trying to create an issue to distract from the real problems, but he has agreed to the GP and counselling and also agrees he wants to fix things. He is so depressed though and has been crying saying he's scared he isn't capable of changing or getting better

I really don't know what to do. If anyone has any advice it would be great. Thank you.

[ike1]

RichMan that phrase about the hoovering is spot on...totally right, this is not catatonic depression so he may as well do productive.

[catgirl1976]

I know rich - I won't x

coal - I hope so too. This has got to be the start of things changing.

[imaginethat]

catgirl your dh doesn't sound well enough to work at the moment. He sounds very seriously depressed. I would imagine he needs meds, therapy, and a simple daily routine for at least a couple of weeks before he is well enough to make big changes like get work.

[catgirl1976]

I know imagine - its a vicious circle as work would give him the focus, the adult company (hopefully friends and a social life), the achievement and the routine he needs to help him and build his confidence but he is in no fit state to go out and get that

I am just hoping the GP is good. He is a a different surgery to me and hasn't seen a GP in years and years for anything so I have no idea who we will get or what they are like :(

[OrangeMochaFrappucino]

I've read and commented omit your threads before, Catgirl, and although this is in many ways the saddest as it's clearly got to such a crisis point, it's the one I feel most positive about. It's the first time I've ever felt sorry for your dh and can finally see why it is that you've stuck by him. His behaviour is horrendous - smashing things, the Facebook stuff - but if it truly has shocked him and made him genuinely willing to seek help then that's a great thing. I have a lot of faith in medication, counselling etc - depression is treatable and I hope that this horrible weekend is the catalyst for change you've been waiting for.

[catgirl1976]

Thanks jelly

As bad as things are I really am hoping they are the catalyst for some change - they have to be :(

[imaginethat]

Yes I get that, absolutely, but right now he does sound very unstable. Maybe just take it a day at a time. Maybe his mood will pick up a little if the GP is supportive. Does he take any exercise?

[catgirl1976]

No

He used to go to the gym and got really into it. Going back would do him the power of good

Am going to try and get us all out for a walk when DS wakes up from his nap

[lollydollydrop]

Hi catgirl,

I am very sorry you are in this situation. I felt I had to reply after reading your posts and especially some of the advice from rishman and ike which I dont 100% agree with- I must point out that I have not read any of your other posts though cat, just going by what you have said here.

You will always get people on the Relationships thread who are very quick to say 'leave the bastard' or 'leave the waste of space' but I have to passionately disagree in your case. You have been with your husband for many years- 15 years- and have a lovely DC together.. When you married your vows were 'for better or worse' and this time right now, and in the past few years have definately been 'worse' for you both as he is clearly very ill. But he does need you more than ever now because I believe that now he has finally hit rock bottom. It is often only at rock bottom that you try to seek help, as there really is no where else to go. I speak as someone who has had a great number of issues with this and suffered severe depression in the past. Luckily, the good part of this is that it undoutably will get better, as others have said it just may take time. You will have to be (even more) patient than you are being. And counselling can actually make you feel worse before better, but if he sees someone who he trusts etc then it is something worth doing. I also think that he should definately be seeing a professional to talk about his issues aside from any relationship problems, in addition to the couples counselling you shall be going to. I do not like he reasoning for the couples counselling though :( Ideally, the focus would be on him in therapy as you are right that is where the real issue lays, and then any therapist worth their salt would also invite you in for a few sessions and maybe you could start to address relationship issues there. Definately be pushing for him to see a professional though. This must be so hard for you. If he is open to medication that can be really good, I wasnt sure how I felt about anti-depressants, and I am a Psychologist very aware of the debate about them (people seem to fall into two very distinct camps) but I think in his case they would be a vital part of his recovery. If they could just take the edge off his mood somewhat that if felt he has the energy/motivation to help out with the house more as the others have said. I think there is a chance you may have been 'enabling' him although I think thats a horrible phrase and I wish you wouldnt use it or be hard on yourself as you have only done what you thought was the very best for everyone concerned. I would also like you be very wary about leaving him (moving out for a while) even if that were the right thing to do- which I am not sure if it is (especially if you are the only support he has). That option is very 'tough love' and he would definately sink or swim. You may have an inclining which way that would go. It is perhaps unfair to ask someone to 'sink or swim' when they are so crippled by depression they cant even move their limbs properly. You are setting them up to drown. I do think you should start to take more time for yourself somehow, whether you could stay at your parents for a couple of days a week (you could frame it as a positive for both you and DH). Oh and the alcohol- that has to go. Alcoholism in my family, horrible horrible alcohol.


P.S. When you go to the doctors for a referral to either a Psychiatrist or Clinical Psychologist for DH, be warned that depending on the waiting list it could take a couple of months before you can see anyone (unless your private care extends to that too??). And the anti-depressants could take up to 6 weeks to 'work' properly i.e. be in his bloodstream, although you have the initial perk of feeling proactive, placebo effect etc which cant harm.

If I were you and you were told that there was a lengthy wait, I would be booking in to talk to the GP myself in a couple more weeks and emphasising how much you cant cope, how he has worsened etc- they do have means to push you up the queue depending on severity. Good luck and you have my well wishes for the future months xx

[catgirl1976]

Thank you for that lolly - that's really helpful

DH is open to medication which I think is good. Plus our private healthcare does extended to MH and counseling so he should be able to get to see a professional quickly.

I totally agree that the "sink or swim" thing when he is so unable to even tread water is right. I haven't really been able to verbalise before why moving out is not really an option in many ways.

He needs to break the vicious circle he is in and I am hoping some ant-ds and some therapy will start to do that.

I don't like his reason for agreeing to relate either and am worried if they don't agree with him (or side with him) he will say they are wrong / worthless and will stop going. Hopefully that won't happen but it is a concern. Maybe if it is backed up with therapy for him he will stick to it.

He is asleep atm as he went back to bed when DS had his nap. When DS wakes up I am going to try and get him to get up, get washed, eat something and then all 3 of us take DS to the park on his trike. I don't know if he will but I think some fresh air and sunshine would be nice for all of us. If not, I will just take DS out on my own

[RandomMess]

catgirl I think what you have to bear in mind is that if he starts refusing to take meds/therapy/counselling then there is no future. You cannot continue like this. I agree he is unwell but if he refuses to seek help and treatment then he will not get better and you are going to go under with him.

I'm sorry that is so harsh but you cannot physically keep going with the current situation unless something changes, even if that is just you going to bed at 10pm regardless of weather you've had any couple time or not.

Please do not let him blame you for his behaviour either

[ike1]

Nobody is suggesting LTB Lolly this is a disingenuous and erroneous point to make to Cat with regard to the advice kindly given by others.

What we are suggesting is that Cat puts boundaries in place and this could include physical distance aswell as emotional. if she does not do this she runs the danger of becoming ill and disenabled herself as the pneumonia and recent 'break down' suggest.

[ike1]

Cat I am bowing out of this thread now...because i have made my suggestions and it really is your choice. I will continue to watch with interest. I suspect that you will continue to prop up your H without boundaries at a detriment to yourself and your little ds...this again is your future and fate not mine. Good luck.

[catgirl1976]

Thanks Ike

DS is up now

Went to wake DH up and tell him we were all going for a walk and he just started swearing at me and telling me I was a cunt

I just don't know what to do.

[ike1]

You do know what to do Cat... look inside yourself what would you tell a friend with a little son that she she could do. That friend is you lovely.

[lollydollydrop]

Sorry Ike but I read it as definately the sub-text in several posts. If I took it that way I think it may be reasonable that the messages could have put doubt in OPs mind so wanted to give another perspective.

Cat, I think your plan for the day sounds really good, I hope you manage to get him out the house with you both. It is so important to carry on doing the 'everyday' self-care things aswell- e.g. does he shower and wash every day? When I have been in the thick of it, that really does make you feel a whole lot better, its as if you clean your insides a little as well as your out! :) Even if he doesnt feel like doing things at the time- and he most of the time probably wont right now- it is a good idea to drag him out. When I was suffering some people tip toed around me/ignored me/left me to it which meant that I NEVER went out, looked after myself etc and I just sank deeper into the mud. I needed a friend who would force me to go out (well- they could try!) or a mother who didnt succumb to my daily 'I dont feel like it' etc and leave me be. He needs to break the habit he is in right now of not joining in with those things. Its like smiling when you dont feel like it- gradually it does make you feel better and those smiles become genuinne.

Try to find something together that makes you laugh- comedy helped me. For ages I could watch a show and not even flicker when others belly laughed, but it slowly broke through to me and it helped. Maybe his fave stand up artists, if he has any. I'm not trying to trivialise his condition please dont think that.

Had a thought about spending time together as a couple in the evenings- you could start to do things that were more 'productive' than watching a film with wine (lovely as that is!!!!). Perhaps keep that in (minus wine) but you could start to increase his motivation and interest in things by for example, making pizza together or baking- I made pizza for the first time a few months ago and it was so fun!! Or you could bake a cake together to signify 'The start of a new beginning' for you. Write down a wish each on paper, go for a long walk in the fresh air and find a little stream and bridge and 'release' that wish. Set off a lantern with you DC one night for a brighter future. Write down everything you are thankful for in life and share it with each other. He is in a rut of negative thoughts and also whilst people are depressed they are very selfish and self-absorbed, it is just part of the condition and you mustn't take it to heart. Other people may think these suggestions arent your place to implement, and thats what the counsellor is there for, but I just like to be pro-active and they are a just a few things I would try to integrate into the future. Perhaps you could when he is a little better, start a class together in the evenings, get your folks to look after the little one and you and DH find a shared interest whereby hopefully he could meet some new people, as he really needs that. But I dont think he is strong enough to go without you atm.


Do you socialise with anyone from work? Does DH have any interests (before the depression) Are either of you religious?

I second somebodies suggestion on the exercise- that will help so much. Sometimes exercise is prescribed instead of AD's- certainly in conjunction with. Start with walks with the baby, get some fresh air. He may enjoy gentle swimming and then a spell in the hot tub/steam room area to relax and un-wind. Although by what you have been saying I think you would REALLY benefit from that too!! Could you call upon your folks for a little 'crisis' babysitting to give you a but more time for yourself, and you and DH together?Xx

[DawnOfTheDee]

I'd go and stay at your parents (at least for tonight).

[Mumsyblouse]

Even if I wasn't apportioning blame (and I am really angry on your behalf so I am)- the plain fact is this is a highly dysfunctional relationship in which you have had a breakdown (and a jolly 'it was back in Feb, I'm much better now' doesn't really fool me, you have to take AD to cope with your husband) and are now assaulting your husband and him abusing you is just not a relationship in which a child should have to live. Sorry.

Your husband is not doing this because he's depressed, he's depressed because you are living in a highly dysfunctional very enmeshed cycle in which you are always 'better' than him (in his mind) and which he verbally and in other ways abuses you, and you feel permanently guilty.

I don't see how you can say he's a great dad, when he is depressed, doesn't care for your son most of the week, stays up late gaming and drinking and has pushed the one functioning parent to a nervous breakdown. Oh, and he smashes up the house, so badly the child has to be removed by the grandparents, and on a family walk calls the child's mother a cunt.

Don't you get it- if you don't remove yourself for your sake (and you are sooo much worth more than this) then please remove yourself or him temporarily for your son's sake. This is not a nice pleasant family home with a dad who is a bit depressed, it's way beyond that. In fact, it is upsetting to read.

[Jux]

Make a list of all the things which need to be done every day, chores, childcare, the lot.

Allocate the bulk of it to him.

[Mumsyblouse]

Could you call upon your folks for a little 'crisis' babysitting to give you a but more time for yourself, and you and DH together?Xx sorry- but cat has been making herself ill staying up every night with her husband for together time- and has had a breakdown as a consequence.

And- the thing that makes me thing it is waaaaaay beyond nice romantic dinners and reconnecting is that at 1.30am, when you have been up since 6.30 am, have recently had a breakdown, and told him you were exhausted, he wanted to make you stay up even later with him because 'he needed time with you' even though you'd watched a film/had a bottle of wine (which of itself was ridiculously late given your schedule). He's not even letting you sleep. Sleep deprivation is a form of torture and that is why you lost it, because you cannot physically mentally go on in this situation. I knew this would happen when I read your posts last week, he's not even able to leave you to just care for your son and get some rest. This is not the actions of a person who will be 'cured' by medication.

But of course, if it is, and he is much better, nicer, employed, starts keeping regular hours, starts respecting you, never calls you a name again, stops drinking/online gaming obsessively etc, then you can get back what you had. There is nothing to stop that, is there?

[Sh1ney]

haven't you been posting about this man child for ages? I only read first few posts.

the advice wont change. do you just want to vent or do you actually intend to take some of the advice that people take time to post for you?

[Sh1ney]

OK have read more

He woke up and swore at you and called you a cunt... and you say yu don't know what to do?

Stop putting your child through having to witness this hideous abuse and LEAVE HIM.

We'll see you back here in 2 months though right?

[RichManPoorManBeggarmanThief]

You do know what to do. Pack his bags. Tell him you want him gone by the time you get back from your walk. mean it. He's not going to change. He can't even maintain the facade for 24 hrs.

[Alibabaandthe40nappies]

Bloody hell Cat - you cannot continue in this situation. Soon your DS will be old enough to fully understand what is going on. Do you want him to hear you being called a cunt?

[RhondaJean]

Cat try to get him back to the gym, it's got my DH through so much. It's not just the exercise, he gets to mix with people as well and just get out of the house.

(things are good here, he is better ATM, he will graduate with an honours degree from a Russell group union July, I am expecting a little dip after that as he tries to work out what to do next but hopefully we are over the worst).

Depression is a horrible illness. It's Awful watching it eat up someone you love. But you do have to set boundaries, as others have said, he can't go on like he is, for his sake as well as yours and kitten boys. It's baby steps though, GP first, gym next I would suggest. And no more talking to you like that. It's way out of order.