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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Need to leave but so, so scared

38 replies

HeKilledMyClematis · 10/05/2013 16:01

Not sure what advice I'm after really. Maybe just to talk to others who have been through similar.

I need to leave my husband (married 7 years, together 12). He has a history of compulsive sexual 'acting out', mostly online/text sex (including use of paid services). He has had profiles on dating/casual sex websites. Last year I found out about some inappropriate texts to a female colleague and most recently he's paid for private dances on a business trip. He has been through a very expensive, intensive therapy programme as he seemed to really, really want to stop ? although only because he thought I was going to leave him. I was going to leave, but I gave him a final chance because he seemed so committed to this therapy. He says he has not acted out for about a year (which was when I found out about the texts to a colleague, and was ready to leave), but then he came home from a work trip and told me about these private dances. He told me, without being prompted, because I have told him in the past that it is the lies which do the most damage. He thinks because he told me the truth straight up this time, there's no problem. He doesn't seem to see this as 'acting out' and thinks there's 'nothing wrong with it', mostly because he has colleagues who do this. I disagree. I appreciate him being honest, but a) I suspect there is still a lot he is/has not been honest about (I don't think I will ever get a full disclosure, he's ashamed of some of the things he's done and is an expert in self-denial), and perhaps more to the point, b) I think this means we have irreconcilably different beliefs about what counts as fidelity and commitment in a relationship. This, rather than whatever he did with some stripper, is the dealbreaker for me. Needless to say, if he had been totally honest about his views on this before we got married, I wouldn't have married him. I'm not into moralising, I appreciate people can have different views on fidelity and relationships. I've had a really good go at adjusting to his views and living with them, but I don't think it can ever work for me.

After giving him a final chance last year, I said I would give it a year. We have had some good times over the year. But I spend a lot of time fending off intrusive thoughts, wondering about who he?s done what with behind my back, who he might be talking to on his blackberry, whether he compares my (post- two big babies) body with the other women he's been with. When the thoughts come it gives me a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I need to leave because I can?t stand living with that feeling any more.

So it should be simple - I should just leave.

But I'm scared for 3 reasons.

  1. In almost all other respects we have always had a very good relationship. I have many happy memories with him. We're very close (although I admit, I feel the lying has tarnished this). Every night we go to sleep with our arms around each other. He tells me he loves me daily and I believe he means it (he compartmentalises and separates sex from love). Our sex life has always been good, weirdly, never badly affected by whatever else he has been doing elsewhere. I'm going to miss him and the intimacy we share, terribly. It really is like losing a friend (even though, I know he has not always treated me with the respect that a friend deserves). I'll be very lonely without him. I've loved him such a long time and we've grown into each other so much. I don't know if I'll ever feel this way about another person - it's a very big gamble.

  2. He thinks his views are normal and that I won't find another man who thinks more like I do. He thinks this is just what men do ? that seems to be what his friends tell him. What if he's right? Perhaps I do need to just accept his view that what matters is that he always comes home to me. Perhaps I will leave only to find that every other man I meet does the same thing. My first long-term boyfriend also cheated.

  3. I?m also scared because of the practical side. I have 2 very small children (2½ and 4 months - DD conceived as a result of some very ill judged hysterical bonding, but I don't regret her for a minute). At the moment I have no income other than MA. I'm busting a gut looking for a job (have just finished a PhD) but there is no way I can maintain our current lifestyle. We are not lavish but we have huge outgoings (mortgage, nursery fees) - H is a high earner but I will not be, especially working part-time. I do not want to depend on him for vast maintenance payments even if he is willing to make them. I know that I am much, much better than he is at being frugal but I just can't get the figures to add up - rents and house prices are very high where we live (and I really want to stay here for many reasons, including support networks). I'm just so scared that I'm spoiling my kids' futures because we will have to live in a tiny flat with at best a tiny garden, out of the catchment areas of the good schools, etc. I realise a nice house and good nurseries and schools are privileges - for myself, I don't care. But is it right to deprive my kids of these things just because I'm unhappy in myself, because I can't reconcile myself with my husband having his cake and eating it? After all he is a good father. He does loads of the domestic work and the kids adore him. I feel like I'm putting myself first, above them.

I want to do the right thing, but there doesn't seem to be a path which doesn't involve someone being hurt. Thanks for reading if you made it this far. I think I just needed to write it all down.

OP posts:
SingingSilver · 12/05/2013 17:45

Very true.

HeKilledMyClematis · 13/05/2013 10:26

Couldn't post at the weekend with H around (didn't really think about that when I wrote my OP during DCs nap on Friday).

Thank you to everyone who said this is not normal, it's not just 'what men do'. I want to believe this, but I'm scared that, by leaving, I'm just looking for some rare nugget of gold (and that they are all taken by now!) instead of just making the best of the harsh reality (i.e. that true fidelity is rare, that love and sex are not the same thing). I certainly believed it was possible for men/people to be faithful and committed before I married him, btw. He let me think that he believed that too. I think living with his behaviour has worn me down emotionally.

you are going to be giving up a lot of good things in this relationship, and he is your children's father... it's not easy being on your own.

This is it, really. He's not just poison or I wouldn't have married and had a family with him. He can be selfish and entitled; he's also funny, lovely charming, generous, interesting. I still enjoy his company. Except that now all the fun we have is spoiled by that sick feeling in my stomach. I need to accept that I can't have the lovely stuff without swallowing the poison with it, which I don't think I'm prepared to do any more. But it really hurts so I'm stuck at a kind of impasse, paralysed and scared to move forward. He doesn't even seem to notice me withdrawing.

What I get from your post is that although you are sad and scared you know that you need to leave but you are concerned about the effect on your children.

This too. It's not so much the material benefits for myself, as the fear that I won't be able to provide adequately - both materially, and in terms of a fulfilling family life.

There is a thread on here, 'Mourning my normal family life'. This is what I'm scared of, being lonely and unhappy as a single parent, which will be no better for my children than the status quo.

Thanks again everyone for the comments. I'm procrastinating on here because I don't want to bore RL friends with it and exhaust their patience.

OP posts:
HeKilledMyClematis · 13/05/2013 10:39

Silver I read both of your posts. I wasn't offended by the first one, although I do think I have already treated him like an adult and tried my best. I can't change his behaviour and I'm not interested in policing him, it's boring. I think it's interesting that you changed your mind, and thank you for coming back and re-posting.

AF and others Also interesting that the phrase 'acting out' has provoked this reaction. This is not my phrase, it's from his sex addiction counselling. It never occurred to me, but yes, it is beyond euphemistic isn't it. It neutralises some behaviour which I personally think is quite nasty. I have tried so hard to be compassionate and understanding of his point of view that I hadn't even considered how I had started using language which basically masks the destructive effects of this behaviour. I always used to call it 'cheating', but then we could never have a calm conversation about it as he would get so defensive. He seems unable to empathise with how it feels to me and I think perhaps I am empathising and shifting my boundaries too much.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 13/05/2013 11:29

Of course a cheater is "defensive" when called on the behaviour

Using a different phraseology for it to make him feel better about himself is beyond conciliatory, it is enabling. Am not too sure about this counselling he is having, tbh. It appears to be yet another place he can go and wang on about his tawdry little mindset. Is it even helping...?

Mumsyblouse · 13/05/2013 11:41

'Acting out' is a strange phrase, it sounds like something a not very rational toddler would do, although your husband acts like a not very grown-up person, so perhaps it is quite apt. I think it is used to denote the loss of control the person has over their 'addiction' however my own personal view is that in the main sex addiction is a psychological term used to cover up the fact that the person just really really likes sex/sexual activity and isn't prepared to be faithful. There are exceptions to this, I can see pathological behaviour in a tiny minority, but mainly it is used to describe not being able to keep it in your pants without getting blamed! Also- whether your DH has this addiction or not, he's not over it- lap dances on a business trip, how much more insulting could it get given he's on a final warning before his life implodes.

This is not normal, my husband does not pay for sex/online activity/lapdances, and if he started, I'd be out of there very quickly. There's something about paying that offends me more than someone romancing a colleague in a weak moment- it's the view that women are not real people but just services to be used. Horrible.

HeKilledMyClematis · 13/05/2013 11:59

Yes, sex addiction is highly contested and I'm not sure what I think. For me it doesn't make the behaviour any more excusable - people who are alcoholics also mistreat their loved ones due to their addiction, this does not make it excusable or justifiable. He sought the therapy because he really wanted to stop. Because he wanted me back. But Mumsy you are right, he is clearly not over it, he's just found a new behaviour.

AF well it is clearly not magic - it has helped a little but I suspect not enough. To give the therapists credit they do not apologise for the behaviour, they work on things like dismantling the sense of entitlement, getting him to look at consequences including who gets hurt. He has gained some insight into what motivates hims, etc.. I just don't think it will ever be enough. It has ironically made him more honest - so at least this time I have the information I need to make a decision about whether to stay in this marriage (I came across his other indiscretions by accident and he's a bloody crap liar).

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 13/05/2013 12:03

What are you going to do, love

Accept his "honesty" and stay with a cheater ?

Do you get the opportunities to "act out" btw ? Get yourself a hot new ride, exchange a few genital pics with strangers for the thrill of it ?

He wouldn't like that, I expect. He doesn't respect women who participate in activities like this with him, he hates them.

HeKilledMyClematis · 13/05/2013 12:04

Sometimes I think I will sit him down and ask for a completely open relationship. OK, I will accept what you do and I won't ask questions - so long as you have the kids once a week while I date (and maybe shag) other men.

I would just love to see the look on his face. I would like just once for him to experience how painful it is being on the other side.

I don't actually want to do this, though, and I would like to manage our split in a non-vengeful way so I should probably avoid mean, slightly childish jokes.

OP posts:
HeKilledMyClematis · 13/05/2013 12:05

I am consulting a solicitor in an hour.

I think that's all I can manage for today but it's a step forward.

OP posts:
HeKilledMyClematis · 13/05/2013 12:06

As in, to find out what I'm entitled to if/when we divorce, so I can start making some more concrete plans.

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 13/05/2013 12:08

That is a very sensible move.

HeKilledMyClematis · 13/05/2013 12:08

Oh he would hate it, he's actually quite possessive of me.

Also, exchanging genital pics with strangers makes my stomach turn. I'm not prudish about sex but bleurgh Confused not my cup of tea

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 13/05/2013 12:10

Of course he is possessive of you. You are a "good" woman (Madonna) and those others are "bad" women (Whores)

This man is utterly fucked up. I don't know how you can look at his squealy, inadequate face over the cornflakes, tbh.

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