Mother choosing dog over grand children

[Pennies]

Long long story but basically my mother (suffers from profound long term clinical depression, low self-esteem, hideously lonely etc) has got this 5 year old dog that is badly trained. It still poos on newspaper at night and the garden is littered with it's doings all over the place. The whole place is minging. This weekend we stayed there with our two DD's (20 months and 5 months) and when i came downstairs on Sunday morning the dog had pooed in the kitchen. I got my mum to go and clear it up and all she did was pick up the newspaper and didn't mop the floor at all. So I got to it and realised as I was doing it that she (or her cleaner) hadn't cleaned the floor for months. As well as pooing on the the floor anyway the dog is obviously getting it on his paws as he spends a lot of time outside and is treading it into the floors and carpets throughout the house.

As I've raised this topic with her before this time I got angry and explained to her the issues with dog poo and childrens' health and she just went all passive/agressive and insular, hunched over chain smoking giving it the whole victim thing. I told her that her house was not somewhere where I want to bring my children whilst it is covered in dog mess and we left it at that.

Talking to my bro last night it seems she rang me and basically bad mouthed me to him and seems to think I'm a fastidious clean-freak (so far from the truth LOL) who is over reacting. She doesn't actually seem to think that the level of cleanliness is a problem. She refuses to ask her cleaner (totally ineffectual anyway - she's essentially a paid friend and she comes in for 30 mins each week and drinks tea as far as I can see) to do something about it. When my bro told her that he felt I had a point and that perhaps she should take on board some of what I said she said "It's the way I choose to live". So, the upshot is that if the way she chooses to live is in a house covered in shit then I'm not taking the girls there. She doesn't travel much these days and we live about 100 miles apart so there's not much chance she's going to see the girls. Her eraltionship with them is pretty non-existant anyway - she seems unable to engage with them on any level to the extent that I can't believe she's ever had any contact with children, let alone two of her own.

To add to this she's getting another puppy next month so the problem re. cleanliness is just going to get worse.

I hate to row with her particularly as she's so down and depressed but I can't help but feel that me and the kids are being dumped because she doesn't want to offend the cleaner and won't tackle the dog's behaviour.

Sorry this is so long. Well done for getting this far!

Anyone got any advice?

Firstly, I think you might feel much better if you can get away from the idea that this is personal and she has made any kind of rational choice between the kids and the dogshiyt - she sounds as if she is way beyond a rational decision on this, and is sinking quite deeply into depression. It MUST be very hurtful, but it doesn't sound as if she is very capable of making a rational pro-active choice.

Can you go up, but meet on neutral(hygenic!) ground, like in a big [park which has a cafe, and buy her lunch? Pick her up, with the kids, and take her for a day out to a stately home or something, and you bring a picnic? She might start to realise how much she enjoys the kids, but you can calmly keep on with the line 'oh well, it's not really compatible having the dogs and the kids in the same space, is it?, and if she wants to then invite the kids to her house, she might get it cleaned.

Go up a couple of times a a year without the kids and give the place a good pull-through with a mop and several bottles of bleach? (won't last - but might set a standard for the 'cleaner').

It does sound like her illness rather than her attitude, iyswim.

I like the idea of all picnic etc but after years and years of trying to accommodate her depression I'm at the end of my tether so driving for 3 hours with two LO's after which we'd then have to shell out for a hotel because I don't think it's fair to make the girls spend 6 hours in the car just for lunch. I certainly see your point and appreciate the idea but it would be very hard to make it work IRL. As for cleaning, yes I've sort of done that before but she gets VERY offended and if you criticise her in any way then you get made to feel hideously guilty. Just not worth the effort or upset I tend to feel.

BTW Blu you're absolutely right about it not being personal and I accept that her depression is now an illness for which she can't be blamed. However this is now affecting my kids as well as my own relationship with my mother so it's hard to divorce myself emotionally from such a personal issue.

Yes, I can see the distance makes it very hard indeed. And I completely understand why you don't want the kids in her house. Or to be in it yourself - yuk!
Does you brother live near her?

I really sympathise - such a difficult situation. How about you invite her to come and visit you for a day and a night? Would she have the energy? What does your brother do? Does he go and visit her?

It seems to me like she's not making much effort with you, or the house. I'm sure it's due to her depression, but it isn't very nice for you is it?

Is she getting help / medication? Perhaps it's worth tackling the huge underlying issues. Easier said than done I know. I'd be worried about using the kids as the way in which you 'bring her to her senses'. She really needs help it seems.

Is there any way you could talk to the cleaner privately along the lines of "I'm so worried about mum. She seems to be letting things get on top of her. You are so good to her. If I suggest a good spring clean she'll flip but could you suggest that you need to do a real 'deep clean' to get a handle on things again?"

My Bro lives further from her than I do. He does a bit but the bare minimum because he can't face her depression either. I have asked her to come and stay but she uses the dog as an excuse not to.

Her GP has been prescribing her AD's for years and years now. She referred her for counselling but it never manifested itself and so I arranged some privately for her. The woman she saw assessed her and said she was one of the most depressed people she had ever seen yet somehow pronounced her cured after about 8 sessions.

I do all I can to try adn boost her mood and self esteem (compliemtns, encouragement, suggest activities etc) but she still remains the same. I have resigned myself to the possibility that she's never going to change now (she's in her 70's) and that perhaps she's only happy when she's unhappy.

sorry re. typos - eating / typing.

liar liar - this is an option I am considering but have found in the past when I've asked the cleaner to do a bit more there's been no improvement. As far as I can tell all she does is a bit of dusting and ironing.

I second everything Blu said.

I agree with everything Blu says. I think if the visits are going to be so unpleasant for you then you need to limit them to a few times a year. And unfortunately when you do go you need to bite your tongue and keep your dd's off the floor.

It is her illness which is making her like this and I agree that I don't think she has made a conscious decision to choose her dogs over your dd's.

cupcakes - yes certainly an option. Tho DH refuses to go and is adamant that he doesn't want the girls there. I have to respect his opinion and TBH I think I feel the same tho to a slightly lsser extent, but realise my relationship with her (and the kids') is at stake as a result. But then I suddenly feel that its ME creating this situation - thus now making myself feel more guilt - and I genuinely don't think it is.

God I sound as bad as her - you're all giving me good advice and with each suggestion I'm giving reasons why it wouldn't work. aarrgghh.

There is not much you can do from your end apart from protecting your childrens' and your own emotional wellbeing. If that means one visit a year then so be it.

You may want to have a chat with your own GP about her depressive behaviours and how it is having a wider effect on you all as a family. Being prescribed ADs has clearly not benefitted her at all - when was the last time (if ever) she was assessed by a mental health unit?. I think you may well have to consider this particular route but if she does not want help then there is nothing you can say or do that will change her mind. They may well need her consent.

Would also suggest you make contact with MIND or some other organisation like Depression Alliance.