Can I really divorce to get rid of the ILs?

[probablyhadenough]

Have nc for this. Sorry it is long!

Dh and I have had a bit of a rubbish time for about 8 years - he is an expert stonewaller and has (I think) depressive episodes when he is impossible to live with. He thinks I am shouty and difficult.

Anyway, things came to a head last weekend and we had a horrible row. He went AWOL for 24 hours with no contact - we have young 2 children who were confused and upset and I had an absolutely miserable weekend trying to comfort them whilst feeling furious and worried myself. He has done similar before, and seems to be instigating a scene to have an excuse to avoid childcare when he is exhausted.

Apart from the lack of contact, the main thing that upset me was that he went to his parents and clearly discussed me and our marriage in negative terms. To give some background, his mother has always had a problem with him being married per se and particularly to me (e.g. she cried when she saw the double bed in our first flat together and had some kind of breakdown on our wedding day). She has manipulated situations, lied and caused problems ever since.

We had a counselling session last night and most of DH's objections seemed to come verbatim from her. "I prevent him and the children from seeing them", I am the cause of his depression etc. I was so flummoxed that it was hard at the time to respond without sounding shouty and difficult. DH is good at putting on a reasonable public face, he is very different in private - so he came across as having legitmate concerns I think. It was impossible to convey how destructive his mother is without sounding mad.

WHen I got home I checked how many times we/he/the children have seen the ILs since we moved closer in September. It is 10 times - not exactly prevention! Plus I suggested he saw his mother on Mothers day (he wouldn't have initiated it) and it was me who suggested moving closer in the first place.

Anyway, to cut a long story short I think she has phoned me twice today and I suspect it is to warn me not to prevent DH from seeing the girls - something I would never do. (He is still staying with his parents ).

I am totally sick of them - not particularly pro DH either - and am seriously considering giving up on them all.

Is that madness?!

This sounds an unfair fight, H and PILs ranged against you. Where no abuse or violence is present, walking out never solved anything.

Staying incommunicado when you have rowed and are left looking for your DCs is spiteful. Staying on at his parents' presumably lapping up idolisation is pathetic. Are you expected to grovel to get him home?

Btw Has he actually been diagnosed with depression in the past by a doctor?

It was impossible to convey how destructive his mother is without sounding mad.

Is it possible that the counsellor lulls everyone into feeling like they have had their say and is actually observing to see how you both come across? Next session they may go over what was discussed and ask how you would like to respond and watch how H reacts.

A friend of mine went to relationship counselling regarding trust issues and was shocked and further disillusioned that her P and the woman counsellor were flirting by the close.

Incidentally, you mention PILs being an issue but have concentrated on MIL, is FIL as vociferous as she is?

Thanks Donkeys - yes it is an unfair fight and feels very much like bullying tbh. My family tend to back off in situations like this, on the basis that marriage is hard and people should be left to sort things out - so I can be left feeling pretty alone .

He was diagnosed with anxiety disorder/depression after xmas and I feel has been building up to this for years. His take on this is that he was 100% fine before a crisis at work (and now re-writes history to add me in as a major factor).

FIL is better but is - I reckon - an unhappy man having lived with MIL for so long (she has had affairs and I think oozes contempt for him). They sat Dh and his brother down aged 15 and said they were probably splitting up and what did the boys think. They said 'please don't" so they stayed unhappily together. A similar thing about a decade ago when MIL was found to have a second phone packed full of messages from some other bloke. Both sons were called to the house and they begged them not to split up (for the sake on the as yet unconceived grandchildren!).

So the message is, lots of unhappiness. They don't admit that of course....

Probably, my heart goes out to you. I have been married a good number of years but I am convinced that one of the main reasons we have stayed together is that we did not live near any relatives.

I only recently began to understand how much my ILs and their family disliked me when we got married. I was quite ignorant of it but it started to creep in when the DCs came along and there were torrents of hate from ILs and siblings at various times. I have learned to live with some of it as my DH is right behind me. Had he backed up his parents/DSIS over the years, I would have been out of there. I wouldn't have tolerated that lack of respect. It would have broken me apart to do it, but there were times when I felt the hate coming towards me would have been the end of me. It has taken me years to gain the confidence to stand up to the bitching, the judging, the bullying, comments etc... and much of this has been gained by going NC.

Similar to you, my ILs did not have a happy marriage and some of that was played out in their treatment of me. They had also lived with a very controlling DD and the whole family was often at the mercy of her random periods of rage.

I am a lot older now and have been able to make choices and feel comfortable with them now. For you, you are at the beginning of your life and one thing is for sure, these people do not change. I know its a cliché, but you have to change how you relate to them and start to put boundaries up.

They will always blame you... I am still to blame for everything my SIL is unhappy about. I know that's not true, but I was an easy target. I think it sounds as though you are too. All that dysfunction within their family is being projected on to you and they want you to be as unhappy as they are.

Think carefully about the counselling. Is he just going home and spewing out his version of it to his DPs? It sounds as though you are married to more than one person - your DH, MIL and FIL. Please think carefully about what you want out of this. Its not you, its them. You are the one who has to make the changes, but make them for yourself.

Thank you Never - all this kindness is making me cry...You are right that they will never change. I suppose I have been waiting for that to happen - and thought it was somehow within my control. They are adamant they are only like this because dh is unhappy - but even when he was completely happy at the start of our marriage they were hideous, it is just an excuse. Yes I am an easy target. But I can't quite get over how easily dh is being manipulated - years of practise I suppose...

You will be OK, you know. Its a horrid journey getting there, but you really don't want to have the rest of your life dominated by this bunch of attention seekers. You can choose to be part of it, or start to plan to be apart from it.

I had really strong views about not wanting my DCs to continue in that style ( and I say this having completely normal DCs who do all the annoying things that DCs do). I didn't want the bitterness to flow down and create another generation of nutjobs.

Focus on your DCs and what you want for them. The adults can take care of themselves, but your DCs have you to guide them and you want to be the best role model for them that you can. I hate to be negative, but your ILs will not change and no matter what you do to try and get on with them/please them, they will just move the goal posts. Indeed I think they love being the centre of attention.

Your DP is unhappy? how old is he and why is he running back to Mummy? He may be manipulated by his DM but he is also betraying you when he talks to her about your marriage. I know its harsh, but he sounds incredibly immature and if I were you, I would use my love of my DCs to give me the strength to get through this. You are the stronger partner here and he knows that, so does his DM. You don't fawn over her tantrums or fall to the ground pleading for her love. This will annoy the hell out of her and why she has resorted to increasingly harmful tactics. You haven't played her game and her last throw of the dice is making your DH hate you.

First and foremost, be yourself and make choices which give you control over your future. If you feel yourself wobbling, go and look at your sleeping DCs and remember what dreams you have for them. If they don't include years of distress and heartache from your ILs and DH, plot your escape. As much for them as yourself.

Nevergrowingup said what I was thinking, your H does sound immature. He may be used to having parents validate his choices. He may not even be traditionally the favoured child, perhaps only since you met and married him did his mother resent an 'outsider' (you) coming along and saw her influence threatened. I won't waste energy guessing what drives her and to a lesser extent, FIL. Toxic is possibly the word for them.

You do well not to try and appeal to them, she sounds the sort to relish a drama. I know it sounds like taking this up a notch but I'd firm up support from your family and trusted friends. Maybe start to get a clear idea of financials and where you stand legally regarding your home, and being primary carer?

Thank you Never and Donkeys for your wise and measured advice. MN is just fantastic when you really need support.

I read your posts last night whilst waiting for H to return for the weekend - 5 hours after he said, having gone to his parents first. Like an idiot I had made dinner....but I am absolutely refusing to get cross with him today. His/their tactics don't work if you refuse to let them.

You are both uncannily spot on re the attention seeking and the amateur dramatics. And re. H's immaturity. He never really grew up but I suppose that's hard when you have a mother like his. I feel bizarrely sorry for him really, he is throwing away a potentially lovely life. I think I can be happy again one day, but I'm not sure about him.

The one thing that is holding me back is whether they will have more influence over the dcs if we split. Never - I too am desperate for this poison not to infect another generation but surely if the dcs spend every other weekend there, they will be influenced and facts distorted. Plus there is the allergy issue - dd1 just isn't safe in their care - and MIL has an unpleasantly harsh way of dealing with dd2 who is only 3. Funnily enough dd2 is going through a drama queen stage (please let it be because she is 3 and not genetic!) and I feel MIL's centre stage is threatened by this.

H, needless to say, never 'polices' either of these issues and I wonder what would happen without me there.......

YOu can't control everything Probably. All you can do is give the information about eg the allergy and expect them to be responsible enough to handle it. TBH without you there, I'm sure they will handle it. Ignoring it is probably primarily to wind you up, or, more charitably, thinking they don't have to watch out for it because you are there to take responsibility.

So your H is back for the weekend, how's that going? Must be rather stressful and tense for you all?

Bizarrely Electric, it is less stressful than usual! He is very much one for a quiet life where however childishly he behaves it goes unchallenged. And I feel so detached now that the house is calm and pleasant - there is no point engaging with his games. Dc seem happy and just think he has had a busy week at work ie leaving before they wake etc. I think he would be surprised if he knew I was planning to give up....probably thinks I am finally adapting to his needs.

Yes, you say it best when you say nothing at all used to be my X's favourite love song

Still no rows is a good thing for all of you. You are planning to separate then? Don't forget they often turn very vicious when they know you are going, so keeping it to yourself until you are ready might be the wisest course of action. I didn't actually ever tell my X, just moved out one day when he was at work. I'd packed up most of my stuff under cover of sorting out stuff for charity, and he didn't notice daft bugger hehe.

Hope you have a good wknd OP.

Where there are DCs involved I would never say airily oh just leave - then smugly toddle back to my own cosy life. I know there are huge ramifications. I do feel that if this is going to keep rearing its head you have to do something or fume silently which isn't going to do you any good.

Ultimately you can't force your PILs to change and your H already thinks you are shouty and difficult (!) so you might as well start mapping out what to do next.