Jealousy or something more sinister?

[ariane5]

I was talking to a very good friend today and the subject got round to our dhs and she told me the following which really shocked me:

She does not allow her dh to have any female friends/spend time with any women unless they are related to him.
Her dh is not allowed to be on facebook.
He cannot watch any films/adverts if she thinks he might fancy the women in them.

Apparently somebody in his family is having a stag weekend soon and she has 'banned' him from going.

The worst bit of all was when she said she has a rule about hot drinks-if one of the office staff where he works offers/makes a drink he cannot take it off them in case their hands touch!! The drink HAS to be placed down and THEN he can pick it up!!!

It sounds funny but it has played on my mind all afternoon that this is not normal behaviour.In every other way she is really nice but I had no idea she was so jealous.

Its not my place to get involved but I wondered if this was more than just jealousy?

I have an Italian friend who is a little bit similar to this. Like you, for a long time I didn't realise or notice what was going on.
I was pretty horrified to discover that the women to whom her dh was not allowed to "chat" one-on-one, even at social gatherings, included me! I also discovered that he had been banned from taking their ds to an activity one of my dcs also attends because he would be seeing me there.
I have absolutely no designs on her dh whatsoever (although I do like him) and no flirt and am perfectly happy with my own dh. She knows this, but explained that there were certain women with whom her dh could not be "trusted". Not the woman's fault, it was all about her dh.

I have a friend a bit like that. She believes every woman is after her h, and the single ones are literally just waiting until her back is turned. She polices his phone & e-mail, computer history....when I spoke to her about it (gently) she started putting distance between us. If you do talk to her, do it better than I did!

C'mon folks, read the thread. If you had a friend who was previously perfectly normal who had suddenly developed an aversion to her partner picking up a cup that another woman had touched, you'd know she was ill wouldn't you? That she wasn't just a jealous controlling woman who'd always managed to hide that for years. And that she needed help, not condemnation.

I think badinage's approach is a good one even if it should turn out that this isn't a new development and that the friend has simply been better at covering her traces in the past. Either way it sends a clear message of "this is not normal or acceptable behaviour", but it leaves open the possibility of offering support to the family.

I have arranged to meet up with her later in the week and I will try to address the problem then as sensitively as I can.

I feel really bad for not being a better friend but I've had so much going on recently. I really had never seen any warning signs before though but we mostly spoke about dcs etc etc it was only as I'd been talking about my dh and his holiday that she had started saying how she wouldn't allow her dh to etc and then the floodgates opened. Perhaps she has just been keeping this side of herself under wraps I don't know.
She didn't seem happy though so I will try amd talk to her and be supportive. It will be difficult as although she is a friend and has always been lovely to me I feel terrible for her dh. It must be absolute hell, completely suffocating and an awful existence to be constantly terrified of doing /saying the wrong thing or. Breaking the 'rules'.

Spoke at great length with friend, explained I was worried about her and what she had told me.

I asked had there been any problems with her dh to make her do/say these things and she assured me he hasn't cheated and there are no problems.
She admitted to always being a jealous person but that her dh understands she isn't doing it to control him that it is because she loves him so much.
I mentioned how I had never thought of her as particularly jealous or noticed before but it suddenly seems to be a problem for her. I said I was sorry if I was interfering but that Iam really worried about her, how stressful it must be constantly worrying about her dh. And how it must be making him feel like he isn't trusted.

She laughed it off and said it has always been like this and that her dh "knows the rules and is fine with them".

I don't really think there is much else I can do/say is there?

"her dh understands she isn't doing it to control him that it is because she loves him so much."

Bloody hell, she really said that? That line could be straight out of Volume 1 Chapter 1 of 'Emotional Abuse for Dummies'. I feel very sorry for her DH and hope in a totally non-politically-correct fashion that he's managing to stick to 'the rules' and finding a bit of light relief with some understanding OW at the same time....

I really don't know what to do. I don't feel as if I can get any more involved (and that probably makes me a v bad friend) but I have so much going on with dcs being unwell and family issues of my own that I couldn't get too involved in other peoples problems.

I did try to speak to her to see if she would open up but if she can't see for herself that it isn't healthy then I don't know what I could do. I'd hate to see her relationship destroyed by her jealousy but it is not my place to interfere anymore is it?

I don't think it will end well. Such a shame as she is actually lovely and has been a really good friend, dcs always have got on well but I suppose I have just missed the other side there is to her

No wanting a partner to touch crockery suggests pathological disorder and not just human emotions such as jealousy and possessiveness that have got out of control. There is a level of illness and personality disorder present here.

Our role as friends in these situations is to suggest getting help, but if that is shrugged off then our only choice is to re-examine the friendship and decide whether we want to remain in it. It's fairly pointless speculating why her partner puts up with this or feeling sympathy for him because people make their own bargains to stay in relationships that are unhealthy for them and their children. He has choices and if he is still there, all you can know with any certainty is that he currently feels that this is a better choice for him than the alternative.

If I were you OP I would suggest your friend gets some help but if she shrugs it off, I wouldn't stay in the friendship any longer. I am equally intrigued that this disorder hasn't 'shown' itself in 6 years and so maybe there's some learning for you in evaluating people with more discrimination before giving so much to a friendship?

From what I could gather it wasn't the touching the actual cup that was the issue it was the accidental touching of hands if a woman handed her dh a drink.

I really can't believe she has hidden it so well but then again I have been hugely preoccupied with dcs health so maybe I missed the signs. Every time we met up it was usually the dcs we spoke about or would go to park with them etc. I feel like I've really let her down but I really didn't notice anything.

Absolutely agree with Charbon.

It sums up how I feel about most EA threads on here but as spot-on and bullshit free as it is, posting that on the majority of similar threads would cause quite a ruck.

This sounds like a 'mum' friendship that's come about because you had DCs around the same time, so your conversations have been about the thing you have most in common; children. Sometimes those friendships move beyond that superficial level and sometimes they peter out as children grow and make different friends.

I think all I can do is distance myself. I have too much going on in my own life to get involved in such a difficult situation.

Sorry for misunderstanding about the skin/crockery thing, but in essence it makes no difference. It still suggests pathological disorder.

Yes McBalls I agree. Adding to someone's sense of victimisation is not always the wisest approach. Analysing why someone is making those choices and reinforcing that there are choices being made is not always popular and frequently gets met with defensiveness by those individuals and others who are invested in their own victimhood.

Also coming back to Cogito's tongue-in-cheek point about the DH finding an OW, it's a common response to do that when in a relationship that's believed to be abusive. There are hundreds of women especially who do just that, but it is completely unadvisable because affairs keep people in relationships longer than they should because they make everyday life more bearable, they often put abused people at safety risk and it's unethical to use a third party to prop up one's existence in a situation that should be exited from. Terrible environment for children too if their caregivers are either abusive or living a secret life.

This sounds like something more sinister than just jealousy. Does she not realise that her actions will cause him to leave her in the end. Can you try talking to her and make her see that this behaviour is not acceptable and needs addressing

I think if you really are close friends you should say something?

I know I would if it were any of my mates.

Something along the lines of laughing really madly and then stopping dramatically and saying incredulously.. you have GOT to be kidding?

Then, wow, unhealthy relationship much?

Maybe she thinks it's normal? If no one says anything she will continue to think so... but then HE appears to be putting up with it, maybe they are co dependant.

I don't know, I am a bit wary now and do not want to say the wrong thing. I tried to speak to her about it but get the impression I'd be overstepping the mark if I mentioned it again.

I just have so much to deal with in my own life that I can't get too heavily involved with somebody elses. I feel guilty if I just pretend its not happening though as I can see it ruining her marriage.I will try once more to talk to her about it but if that meets with too much resistance I will leave it.

Half of me wondered if I should invite them round as a couple one weekend and try and get my dh to strike up a friendship with her dh and see what is going on. I spoke to dh about it and he was HORRIFIED.

I don't really get the sense that this is a very close friendship. It sounds more like a relationship borne out of shared circumstances than a genuine meeting of minds.

If it was a genuine friendship, I'd suggest you recommend she gets help but if it isn't and you haven't got the time or energy to commit to any great involvement, I would back off and let the friendship wither. I wouldn't recommend inviting them round as a couple at all.

I'd feel so guilty just leaving her to it when she has made it so clear that there is a problem.

I just have too much on my plate at the moment and I have to put dcs first. She is a good friend (I only have a few friends as don't get outand about a great deal lately due to lots of complicated problems and she has been really lovely to me when I have had some pretty rotten times.I am struggling now that I've seen this side of her.

I will suggest she gets help. Its not something I can help her with though

The difficulty with this is that you see it as a problem, but she does not. She also claims her husband doesn't.

You can suggest she gets some help but obviously you're unqualified to give it and you cannot compel her to do so. So your responsibility ends if the recommendation to get help is rebuffed. Being optimistic, if she goes away, thinks about it and agrees to a psychological intervention then of course the appropriate thing to do would be to support her in that, within the boundaries of the time and energy you can commit to her.

If she resolutely disagrees there is a problem and refuses to see it, would you really want to continue a friendship?

As a separate issue, I do worry about women who say they are having difficulty getting out of the house and having time for friendships. Have you got enough support yourself?

Your df has issooos

Is your friend Amish or something?

She is abusive to her H. Like all abusers, she feels entitled to behave in the way she does. She won't accept help or concern, you're supposed to find her demented behaviour charming. So I don't think you need feel guilty about not 'doing' something about this. It's fine to distance yourself from an unpleasant, selfish, unreasonable person.
I imagine the H simply does what he likes when she isn't looking - or, given that men are rarely physically afraid of women, he has simply decided to put up with her bad points and doesn't think she will actually do a Bobbit on him if he lets Another Woman stir his tea.

One of my best friends is just like this. She never used to be, just with the guy she's with now. I can't talk her out of it because a) she's moved far away and we both work odd shifts so don't see her too often and b) she's more stubborn than a mule. And she tries to twist everything to make herself look the victim and although he dp isn't exactly Prince Charming, she really isn't. But she gets me feeling sorry for her somehow and then afterwards I'm sat there thinking wait...what..?

So I get how you feel OP. I'm at a loss of what else to do except wait for it all to hit the fan and be there for her as much as I can.

Unlike your situation though I have known about this for a good 3 years now. So I can tell you as much as you try and help them see its unhealthy and needs to stop, they won't. And I feel really sorry for you that you've been put into this situation, it's not nice particularly when you have your own problems to deal with too!

She once regaled me with tales of how she goes through his fb and then quizzes him as to why he's friends with x,y or z. Like it impresses me or something?

Sorry for the long post I just wanted you to know you weren't alone