So confused :(

[ThinkyPantsWorryWort]

Not so where to start but hoping you lovely ladies can talk some sense into me.

I'm hurting lots at the moment due to some serious crossed wires and I can't shake the feeling that I've been misled.

When I got together with my dp, 20 months ago I was very upfront about my desire for marriage and children. He shared these feelings.

Recently we have been looking into houses, a family home so to speak. This combined with other things has led me to believe a proposal was in the air.

To summarise:

*5 months in he told me he wanted to propose
*8 months in he admitted a proposal plan had been scuppered by an unexpected visit from my mother.
*1 year in he told me, unprompted, that it would most likely be within a year.
*at a romantic dinner we were discussing it and I mentioned the fact I would like to use a family ring I have inherited (a mother of pearl one) but it was a little in the small side. I suggested I could use it to help motivate a fitness campaign. He told me to tell him when it fitted.
*snuggled up in bed he told me "I want you to be my wife, in fact that's how I sometimes catch myself thinking of you"

I realise I am going on a bit so I'll get to the point. Last night he asked me whether or not I thought our wedding would be like a mutual friends. Two hours later we've finished planning our wedding; except for the date. I am feeling brave so say "all that's left is the date". Silence. Tumbleweed. Random question about what we are having for lunch tomorrow. I am floored but take a deep breath and go to bed.

Big chat tonight. He's not ready, not sure he believes in marriage as an institution but has offered to make a will and go to the solicitors to sign whatever it takes to become legally entwined and be next of kin.

I am so confused and can't stand to look him in the eye. He has been married before and I know this taints his view. He has said "I might wake up tomorrow and think it's a great idea". Equally he said if I asked him he would seriously consider it. I thought it was a case of when not if!

How on earth do I get over my disappointment? I'm also cross that he would say all he has said but not be sure now. I can't help but think something has changed. :(

I second Leverette. You will get over it - if you walk away, head held high, now.

omg. what a shit saying all that to you, to then announce he's not ready. I'm sorry, but he's told you all you need to know about him now. I can't see how you can trust him in the same way? I think you should ask for time time and space to reassess in light of this new information. I know it hurts, but it's better to hurt now than delay it another 2 years as he procrastinates and hums and haws. seriously there is no quicker way to destroying your self worth than hanging in there in the hope he will change his mind.

I agree. The way he's handled this is appalling.

He is entitled to change his mind about wanting to get married, and lots of people talk about it only to get cold feet later. His reservations are not unreasonable and he is entitled to his feelings and allowed to change his mind.

However, to go from planning the actual wedding to saying he's not ready and not sure he believes in it in the same evening is dreadful behaviour. It rather implies he had no intention of admitting it until you gave him no option, and that makes him guilty of saying one thing while thinking another and happily stringing you along in the process. Do you really want a future with someone like that?

In your shoes I would call things off and say you want some time to reassess a relationship that is obviously built on completely different foundations to those you thought it was. This will give you time to heal, keep your dignity as you are not just meekly accepting this appalling behaviour, and it may (if you consider this man a 'prize') just get him to commit as he contemplates a life without you. If it doesn't, you'll have had a lucky escape IMO.

Walk away.

He probably doesn't know what he wants, but this is messing with your head.

You deserve better than this.

He's a con artist.... very cruel to quickly lure you in on the promise of love and marriage, keep holding it out as a prospect, and then drop you in the shit with the reality i.e. he has no intention of marrying. All this in just 20 months?

Don't wait for him to 'wake up in the morning' with a change of heart. Control your own destiny and tell him to find another victim.

If you hang around waiting for him he'll carry on as he has. For a very, very long time. You'll end up miserable.

If you walk away now, you'll get over him; you'll meet someone else who wants what you want and you'll end up with a happy family.

Bit worried you're seeing my Ex, as he reeled me in with all his flowery bullshit about marriage and kids. Never happened (thankfully!). Wat did happen, however, was the systematic erosion of all my confidence and aelf-esteem due to his emotional abuse, gaslighting, self-serving smooth-talking, temper tantrums when forced to stick to anything he promised, lying, just general self-obsession and narcissism...

He sounds just the same. Big romantic promises that are then withdrawn, denied or excused away are actually red flags for abusers, I have found out since. Beware.

He sounds horrible - to keep stringing you along like that and then just change his mind entirely!!???
I have to agree with the others. Not good at all and best to walk away now and find a man who will love and respect you and want to marry you! Good luck.

Are you sure he's not having you on and trying to throw you off the scent of a proposal?

My DB spent a few weeks after he'd bought my STBSIL telling her how he wasn't sure about marriage etc. She was a bit whatever. Probably wasnt his finest hour but he just so desperately wanted the proposal to be a surprise.

Thank you for all your responses. I'm sorry to have been so very quiet. Work overtook in a mad, unexpected way Thursday and am only just coming up for air now.

He realises he has acted unfairly. He admitted to a deep down superstition that if he remarries he'll lose me, like his 1st wife.

The trust thing is difficult. He likened our wedding talk to that of a trip we've planned together but not booked yet. He said just because we haven't paid for the trip or booked anything doesn't mean we're not going but equally he said we can't yet say "we are going to place x in August". Something might happen that means we do or we don't.

Like one posted commented, it's only been 20 months. He is certainly not an EA. . . I hold the majority of our finances in my name and all decisions are made jointly. He looks after us very well, I have a high pressure job so he takes care of the majority of house/food stuff, he earns 1/3 of what l do. No evidence of any other potential gas lighting so although I accept that this could be an example of it I am confident it isn't.

That leads me on to my final point, he said he'd have children with me tomorrow, sign everything over to me as he wants forever. He just can't make that public declaration yet as he thought he was promising forever last time he got married so knows categorically that it might not be true, even though he wants it more than anything.

So we are at a stalemate. I want marriage. He wants children. I won't feel secure enough to do it without a marriage. I don't know why. I'm sure plenty of people feel completely secure without it.

The only thing to do, is like do many of you suggested, take time out. This is a non negotiable for me, he knows that.

Sounds like a load of old pony on his part. Promising marriage, even down to picking locations and other details, is nothing like planning a holiday.... In this case it's not so much 'we are going to place x in August' but talking about exotic locations, getting out the brochures, calling the travel agent, sending off for a passport... and then revealing that there is no intention of leaving the house.

Superstition my eye....

"He looks after us very well, I have a high pressure job so he takes care of the majority of house/food stuff, he earns 1/3 of what l do."

The cynical me thinks he's spotted you're quite a nice meal-ticket if he can keep you strung along with 'marriage'. No wonder he wants to draw up papers, wills and so forth...

Did you not think it was odd that he told you that he was going to propose at some unspecified future date? Surely you propose when you've made your mind up; not announce the imminent proposal years in advance?
And one of the elusive proposals was scuppered by a visit from your mother Wtf?

It's the fact that he has one out of his way to make you believe he wanted to marry you that stands out as being very cruel.

He is a headfucker, loves the idea of being your prize and having you dangling. There's no need for any of that, I imagine you would have given it a chance even if he said he felt uneasy about marriage?

He has done this for his own ego, nothing else. There's a particular kind of person who will morph into their new partners ideal. it shows a lack of integrity, character and morals.

And this stuff about babies? Bollocks! You called his bluff (without even realising that's what you were doing) on the marriage stuff so now he needs something else to keep you hanging on.

He sounds fucking awful. He doesn't want kids so how far is he willing to let reel you in with that one? It's a scary thought.

What about the engagement ring? If he had a proposal scuppered by your mum visiting then where's the ring?

This has really annoyed me! And I'm not even much of a marriage fan...it's just the extent of the manipulation, he sounds an utter creep. And spineless.

I wonder why it would be different if you asked him?

I don't know, I just don't know. I am just so utterly confused. Thrown me completely.

Oh yes I had one of those too. Marriage hints from early on, then naming the kids. 6 years later...he did propose, then ran off with the OW. In hindsight he was a bit EA actually particularly after he'd met the OW. I'd never have recognized it at the time though.

Go back to your posts and see how his story doesn't add up. He's saying that he led you on because he didn't want to lose you - do you see how that's all about him? It's ok for him to hurt you so that he doesn't lose you. That's how he really thinks. He admitted to a 'deep down superstition' - oh please. Do you want to be with someone who considers superstition an acceptable excuse for hurting you? Or who describes his feelings as superstitions? It's an easy thing to admit to though isn't it? So very understandable to not want to be hurt again... He said he was unfair - eh,no, cruel would be the correct word. Callous. You could say careless of your feelings but he's gone to a lot of effort for someone being careless. Manipulative is what he really is.

His 'trip' analogy - he just compared getting married to you to taking a holiday with you - you know that's not right. Also the analogy doesn't even add up - he hasn't ag reed to marry you and is just waiting to pick a date - he's said he isn't sure about marriage at all. Then he said it's what he wants 'more than anything' - oh the dramatics. He's just not willing to actually commit to his side of forever. At least not in public. In case he'd be publicly embarrassed again if it didn't work out again.

'Something might happen that means we do or we don't - what do you think that 'something' might be? What he means is - I might get bored of you or meet someone who blindly adores me better than you. Or you might misbehave and fill the dishwasher wrong repeatedly, then I won't be asking you. So you'd better be a good girl. That's what the something is. Or it might magically wake up one day and my superstitions will tell me that now is the time. So you'll just have to wait and see if that happens. Because what else would you be doing with your life except waiting for him to do you such an honour?

He'd have children with you tomorrow - sure he would.... Sounds good and dramatic though. He wants to sign everything over to you - what everything? You earn more than he does. Exactly which assets is he going to sign over to you?

Normal people don't go around telling you repeatedly that they're going to propose before they do it. Let alone then turn around and say they actually might not do it at all. Normal people just propose. As someone above said, where's the ring from his interrupted proposal at 8 months? Or will his story be that he was going to get you one later - that would be a convenient story.

I don't think you have a stalemate about you wanting marriage and him wanting babies. I think you have a massive trust issue. How can you possibly believe he wants babies? He lied to you repeatedly about intending to marry you. He makes grandiose promises to manipulate you. He's callous and he won't change. Run away.

As a matter of interest, what's his story about why his marriage ended? He says he lost his wife? Also careless don't you think?

Gather up your self respect and tell this bullshitter to take a hike

Thanks again and once again apologies for the late reply.

In answer to a couple of your questions. He has been gifted a large sum of money from his grandmother towards a deposit, he meant that when he spoke of signing things over. There is no need to buy a ring. I inherited one I wanted. My mother lives 500 miles away so an unexpected visit is indeed unusual.

We have talked lots. To my shame he gently showed me am email I had set about a year ago in which I clearly say that marriage wasn't a deal breaker for me and he had replied that likewise, he hoped we would have children but if we found out we couldn't then he'd be happy to consider alternatives. I had forgotten about the whole email but as soon as I saw it I remembered.

I've stated my case. I've explained children are off the menu until we are married. Now he has some big thinking to do.

Thank you all for your time.

Why should he change, he's got you exactly where he wants you! No-one, but no-one sits and plans a wedding for two entire hours, mentions a thwarted proposal, then decides actually they are not ready for marriage. It's absolutely unacceptable. He's dangled the prize in front of you, and continues to do so, and your bargaining chip of not having children won't bother him in the slightest.

I am wondering why you would want to marry a man who can chat happily about planning weddings but doesn't want to marry you.

You're on a hiding to nothing with this bloke. You can dress it up how you like but he is a game playing shit. FFS don't get pregnant by him because my guess is you won't see him for dust if you do. You sound nice and you deserve better.

There will be no further talk of weddings or babies until he is ready for marriage.

I am still very confused by the whole thing and taking a few days to think it all through and take on board all that has been said and talk to some real life friends about it all.

I am in high alert and aware this may well be the unravelling of us. I'm not one to make snap decisions. It frightens me to think of where this is heading.

But really 20 months in is not too soon to be ready, or is it??