A good idea? [Titled edited by MNHQ at the request of the OP]

[bootsgalore]

Our story is long and I tried to type it all out the other night but lost it when I tried to post so I will try to summarise...

Basically, dh and I have been having difficulties for several years. We've had counselling jointly and me individually. This has helped me enormously but we don't seem to be able to break through whatever is the real problem.

Dh thinks the main problem is that we don't have sex often enough. he describes it as the glue that keeps the relationship together, the third leg of the stool, etc, etc. I understand that he is frustrated but his very neediness is one of the things that turns me off completely. There are very specific things he does that I really don't like, have told him many, many times but every time we have sex or he tries to initiate sex, he does them. Why is that? Passive aggressive behaviour? He says he can't help himself.

After a dreadful episode on holiday last week where dh woke me in the night and was so desperate for sex that I ended up giving him a hj whilst almost in tears, he has suggested that we should think about a sex contract. He sent me links to read about it and I have spent the last week thinking about it and everything else.

Will it make things any better? I have a horrible fear that it will make things much worse. He thinks it's all about my lack of libido and that I am deliberately withholding sex from him (and from myself) to punish him. I don't think I am but all my thoughts are going round in circles and I'm at the point of wondering whether I am being unfair or even abusive towards him. Perhaps I need to try this contract idea? It scares me though.

Does anyone have any experience of such a contract?

[AMumInScotland]

That "sex contract" excerpt looks like something that might help a couple where they have both fallen into a rut, both put sex a long way down their to-do-list, both want more but forget to suggest it.

That is not your situation.

You do not want sex with this man because your subconscious is screaming at his attitude towards your body. There are things you dislike, things you find a massive turnoff, but every time he tries to initiate sex, he does them. He is saying "My wants are more important. What you like or dislike is irrelevant. You will provide me with amusement. Your humiliation is part of my fun."

Did you mention any of this to your counsellor? Or did you sound apologetic and say "Well, I have less of a libido and I know the problem is just as much my fault". Because that is what he is trying to make you think. And it really, genuinely, isn't true.

No decent man would force you to wank him off while you cry. He ought to have gone soft as jelly, apologised, and given you a hug, no matter how horny he'd been feeling up till then.

[Lovingfreedom]

He has terms in the contract that are specified and quantifiable (once per week; at least twice per month) whereas the terms for you are not quantified - they are 'kiss you more, more time on foreplay, lots of compliments' which are not defined.

So effectively, you would be agreeing to specifics in return for nothing. IMO this is enough to suggest 'unreasonable behaviour'...

....and by the way, no guy is so desperate for sex that they need their partner to give them a handjob against their will (he has his own hands presumably?) and if you say you don't like something and don't want to do it, a decent man would respect that and not suggest it, let alone do it again.

Your husband sounds like a bully to be honest. Sorry.

[5madthings]

It doesnt matter how innocuous the things he does are, if you dont like it and have said no that means he doesnt do it end of.

[LizzyMcGuire]

Eeeew I'm all itchy just at the thought of being woken up by hair touching and stroking.

And I HATE morning sex unless I'm hungover.

It's not unusual to really dislike those things. I am actually sctratching at the thought, and I am quite a sexual person.

Just so you know. It's not at all unreasonalbe of you. It's iNCREDIBLY unreasonable of him to carry on doing it.

[TheYamiOfYawn]

I think that a sex contract can be helpful in some situations, where both partners want a sexual relationship but aren't communicating well or have got into unhelpful habits and so their needs aren't being met.

But this doesn't sound as though it is the case for you, and the agreement proposed doesn't seem to offer you anything.

In your circumstances, if you want to rebuild a sexual relationship, I think you need to focus on reestablishing trust.

[bootsgalore]

Thanks all for your posts. The sex contract feels wrong the way things are.

I have to take the kids out now so won't be able to reply for a bit but I am taking on board all your comments.

It does look so bad when it's written down....

[StitchAteMySleep]

No I wouldn't, I agree with the others that you have bigger problems here.

If my DH woke me in the middle of the night to pressure me for sex he would be told to fuck off in no uncertain terms. If he is frustrated he can give himself a hand job.

The contract, the bullying for sex and the repeated attempts to inflict acts on you that you have told him you do not like are about control and abusive.

You need to consider whether you want to be with a man who would do this let alone have sex with him.

[TheFallenNinja]

In very few exceptions a contract is heavily weighted to the drafting party.

This is no exception.

I was getting to the stage where I thought that nothing could surprise me but this did.

This is a service delivery contract and it says that you must deliver a service, like sky tv or a newspaper delivery.

Agree to it at your peril.

It's utterly dreadful.

[ladyjadie]

No, no NO! A contract would kill any remaining respect you have for him and yourself. I've been there with the 'sex acts whilst almost in tears. It is horrible. And it gives you such an awful feeling in your stomach that you are doing this and he is just there, getting off and not giving a shit about how upset you are. I have no kids and have never been in a vv long term relationship but I have been there.

Just to clarify, was all of your last post a bit of what he sent you? From .."Would a sex contract.. " down to "..wobbles with your love life" ?

If so it sounds like he's found it online somewhere on a site aimed at women and is using it to be a bit controlling TBH. That coupled with him 'not able to help himself' doing things he knows you don't like, doesn't scream of him having much respect for you.

If it doesn't feel right, don't do it IMO.

[LollyPop87]

OP, I hope you're ok. I don't often reply to many posts, but I had to reply to yours.

I actually cried reading your OP. My ex was abusive, and I ended up doing what you did, giving hj and bj whislt almost crying because I didn't want to. And I felt like it was my fault, that I was so weird for not wanting to have sex with him. Now I am in a very loving relationship with a man who would never dream of doing something like that, and I can see how wrong it was, and that there was nothing wrong with me - but everything wrong with him.

I know how horrible it feels to do something like that, its sickening. I can't bare the thought of someone going through that like I did.

You will get some fantastic advice on here.

In the meantime, whatever you do, please, please DO NOT sign any contract - I feel sick that your husband has suggested that. It is wrong. He is wrong. And please, never ever do anything you don't want to do. You should never feel like you can't say no.

You are NOT being abusive to him. I'm so sorry to say this, as it can be hard to hear, but he is being abusive towards you.

I hope you're ok OP, and that you get all the help and support that you need.

[Lovingfreedom]

I think a sex contract might be a fun way of spicing up a basically sound relationship as a form of sex game or as a way of making time for sex in a relationship where both partners actually do want to have sex, but also have busy lives.

But underlying a sexual relationship is the trust that you maintain control over what you are comfortable with, in the mood for, or choose at that moment in time. This is regardless of any 'contract' etc...(hence safe words etc - retaining a right to say 'no').

The contract set out here seems to be the man making sexual demands and offering in return some vague promise of affection. It sounds so far away from anything fun/sexy/erotic/romantic/positive for a relationship.

[Dahlen]

I don't think he's 'borderline abusive' when it comes to sex, I think he's full-on abusive to you.

If you love someone, you stop doing things you know they find deeply upsetting. "I can't help myself" is another way of saying, "I'm not going to exercise any degree of self control because what I want is more important than how you feel about it." Everyone can always help themselves. There is always a choice, even if it's not an easy one. He chooses to dismiss your feelings for his own gratification.

I would be amazed if this sort of selfish, entitled behaviour did not extend into other areas of your relationship, and as such I am completely unsurprised that your libido is on the floor. Nothing like being treated as an unimportant cross between a domestic appliance and an interactive blow up doll to cause loss of sex drive.

Ugh!

I hope you manage to find a way through this.

[Branleuse]

I rarely feel sexy in the mornings, so we dont do it in the mornings. However I do feel sexy at other times so its not an issue.

I think he is putting so much pressure on you that its both borderline abusive and making things worse.

On the other hand it IS completely hideous to be constantly rejected for sex, and if youre turned off by him touching and stroking you, plus never want to have sex and hes begging you and youre being disgusted and hurt by it, then tbh it doesnt even matter anymore who is right and who is wrong. Its a case of accepting things are actually over and making arrangements to seperate so you can both find happiness.

[Snuppeline]

Yes sex is a glue and is important in a relationship but I've been in bad relationships where I was so far from being turned on that sex was dreaded. I also thought it was my low libido. But it wasn't so much a bad libido as a very bad sexual match. The thing to ask yourself then is if sex is a glue and the sex with this man is bad why he with this man?

[sassy34264]

OMG!


Are you to be his sex worker?

What if you don't stick to the contract?

Does he think he has the right to force you to stick to it?

I'm slightly flabbergasted tbh.

A gun to my head wouldn't make me sign it. And i'd be fecking snapping it off, if i was badgered in the middle of the night for a hj.

The point though, is my dp wouldn't do that and neither would most respectful dh/dp's.

I'm not sure what to suggest because it sounds to me like your problems go a lot deeper than just the sex. ie, abusive, no respect for you, entitled etc.

I think i'd be tempted to send him something back, along the lines of, no sex unless i'm in the mood, no sex if you do stuff that i have already expressed a dislike for. No sex unless i feel loved, cherished, respected etc.

And tell him it's not contractual, it just is.

FFS

[custardismyhamster]

When I moved in with my ex, because of all the extra travel to work, the housework etc etc our sex life fell by the wayside a bit. So we both agreed that 3 times a week we'd plan in an hour in bed together. Not 'we will have sex' just 'we will cuddle up, talk, laugh, relax' quality time. Because of this, we frequently cuddled for 10 minutes, chatted, then CHOSE to have sex. But there was no pressure and id do nothing that says you must have sex!

[sassy34264]

The FFS isn't aimed at you op.

It's a very exasperated FFS at the situation.

[Guiltypleasures001]

Hi Boots,

I see lots of people commenting on this sex contract, but I feel the need to draw your attention back to the had lots of counselling comment its all been helpful, but neither of you can break through the final problem.

The problems as I see them are, he irritates you, pesters you for sex, which when you do you dont enjoy it and probably never have had.

The in a normal loving relationship things he wants to do sex wise stroke your hair kiss you etc, you now find creepy which is a fair point.

I feel the need to point our that it honestly sounds like you dont like him very much and possibly dont love the man, because his attempts at what he see's as tenderness freak you out.

I'm not sure why you are with him, because it sounds like you dont want to be. The reason probably why you libido has dropped and you dont enjoy sex is because why if you dont like some one would you allow them to be inside you? I think theres some very hard and stark questions you might want to ask yourself, do you honestly want to be with him? He is right that yes sex is part of a loving relationship, but not if one person doesnt love, respect and finds the other irritating and by the sounds of it wants to bitch slap him.

I am by no means at all taking any of his side, but your post i think isnt about a sex contract, I mean that deserves a slap at best, but it sounds like the dieing gasp of a worn out relationship to me.

[Bowlersarm]

OP your post has made me feel sad. Everything just screams do not have a sex contract with this man. The pressure it would put on you just sounds huge. You would basically be complying to all his wishes it seems to me. I can't believe he woke you up for a h j - surely he should be reasonable enough to sort himself out.

Most couples libidos don't match exactly. The mature thing would be to find a middle ground by chatting and communicating, not via a contract, it's just not appropriate unless you are keen on it as well. (Maybe your bit of a contract could dictate no sex/talk of sex for the first fortnight in any month or something like that-that'll learn him)

He sounds thoughtless and crass. And maybe you just don't fancy him anymore?

[arsenaltilidie]

I can imagine being rejected time after time can be awfully frustrating.
Has this stroking from the beginning always been a problem?

I think it goes down to the issue of you are simply not attract eft to him? Hence everything he does is creepy to you, I cant imagine you'd be creeped out if eg. Daniel Craig was stroking your hair in the morning.

Chances are he was the 'safer' option when you first got together?

[Gay40]

No. A million times no. The only thing you should be signing is a cheque to the divorce lawyer. Because you are married to a misogynist tosspot. And you don't have to be.
There is nothing unsexier than a partner not in the mood. Anyone who could have an orgasm through such begrudging hand movement obviously enjoys your discomfort.
I think you've just gone off him, which is fine, but there's no mending it.

[expatinscotland]

What Gay40 said.

[Xales]

The fact that he thinks I am deliberately withholding sex from him to punish him means that he sees that he is entitled to have sex with you whether you like or not, not that you are an independent woman person who may not feel like sex.

He thinks you are punishing by lack of sex not that you being asleep and being woken may have a reason not to want to have sex but that you again are doing it deliberately.

Preventing people from sleeping is a form of torture. To deliberately wake you because he wants sex is vile and shows zero respect for your needs.

His doing things you don't like every time shows zero desire to make sex good for you. It is all about him and his sex. Not you.

This contract is more of the same. His interest in his sex not yours.

[Kione]

I am shocked, the BJ with tears in your eyes made my stomach turn
I hope he didnt see you where crying as if he did he is plain nasty and a bad person.

[OxfordBags]

I know exactly why stuff that should be 'normal', ie stroking, hair touching, etc., feels creepy - because your bosy knows what your mind is desperately trying to avoid admitting: that he is sexually abusive to you (and not doubt abusive in other ways that you would also doubt, blame yourself for or minimise - men like this are really cunty in just one area). There is a saying: the body knows what the mind cannot acknowledge (or words to that effect).

Do NOT sign a contract. It reduces you to a prostitute, to given permission for rape/sexual assault. Every single issue he has are things that HE should be dealing with; if he has rejection issues, a normal person gets counselling, not guilt-trips their partner into doing intimate things they despise. If a normal person gets horny but their partner isn't up for any action, you either take yourself off for a crafty wank or you just do something else to take your mind off it. No-one is so fucking horny that they have to have any sexual action with someone else, EVER, and if they say they do, they have either a mental health problem, some weird kind of hormonal disorder or are a rapist.

You are NOT being abusive. You ate not responsible for his needs or pleasure. You cannot allow your body to be used for something so intimate just because he wants you to.

All his talk of you punishing him and so on are just the classic words of an abuser (honestly, there are textbooks written about abusers where these words are shown to be so common that it's like they all have one limited script). They're designed to make you doubt yourself, feel guilty and above sll, to make you give in to him.

You have big problems in this relationship, but it's not how often you do the deed. It's him being a selfish abuser, full stop. The wanking incident was really upsetting and rapey to read, you should not have felt the pressure to do that. As others have pointed out, no normal, decent man who sees women as human beings could so much as achieve an erection knowing his partner was doing something under duress, much less get off on it.