WWYD. Letter from lawyer about signing over (dads) property to sister

[QuintessentialOHara]

This is in Relationships, and not Aibu, I dont want any Flaming or Burn the Witch.

I have been looking after my parents paperwork for them for the last 5 years at least. I am doing their tax returns and helping with any legal issues. I am the youngest sister. I have two children. I spent 3 years living nearby to help my parents get the help they needed, carehome for mum and care package for dad. I know their affairs very well. I have continued looking after everything including banking after moving away.

Last winter I sent an email to the family lawyer asking him to get in touch with my dad as he was keen to make a will. He had said he just wanted it to be fair and equal, but like I said to the lawyer, the will was an issue I did not want to meddle in, so thought it best that father dealt with lawyer himself. We were concerned about mum inheriting as she has dementia and lives in a home, so just wanted to make sure there was a will in place to not cause any problems.

My sister had asked for lawyers email address as she had a question. I gave it to her, naturally. I did not know the details of her query. Not my business.

Today, as I was helping dad with his tax returns I found a letter from Lawyer. He mentioned the issues brought up when he met with dad, but also email correspondence with sister. He said "Bearing in mind no prenuptials and common ownership of all assets it may be difficult to sign over the family home (dads house) to elder sister due to mums dementia and not being able to sign" (Rough translation the way I understand legal speak)

I am not quite sure what to think. But it seems that my sister has enquired with the family lawyer about the possibility of having dads house signed over to HER as "advance inheritance".

Are you on good terms with your Sister?

Can't you just ask her what's going on or is that off limits?

"Maybe I should send lawyer an email, and ask him to clarify any issues relating to signing over the property as inheritance in advance as this was not dads intention, from my dad, with his signature. Or a letter."

This, yes. Do the letter with your dad's signature on it (his real signature don't forge it ), send a pdf of it to the lawyer straight away and then post the original so he has a hard copy of it.

I cant ask my sister what is going on.

She would not answer honestly, I think.

Me and her were planning to build a cottage together several years back. The land was mine, and worth approximately 1/2 of the cost of the build. We would then share the cost of the build between us. This would mean I would have contributed say 100k, and she 50k for simplicity. We then started talking about ownership. Her idea was that we should have a 50/50 share, and our children inherit our shares, so her dd would have 50% and my sons 25% each. My idea was that they should have an equal 1/3 to make it fair between them and to reflect the true value of the input. She refused, saying it was not fair on her dd.

Right then. Clearly your sister has been talking to the lawyer. And the lawyer has done his duty in ensuring that your father knows about this. So the onus is now on your father to instruct his lawyer in how to proceed. And if that means telling the lawyer that your sister under no circumstances is to be given any information about his will, then so be it. And I think (though I am no legal bod) that your father should be able to tell the lawyer that he is not permitted to enter into any correspondence about your father's affairs with your sister. I'm guessing the lawyer is in the position of not being sure whether or not your sister was acting with your father's knowledge, so has used this roundabout route to test the water.

I'm sorry it has come to this - it's such a shame when people behave in a grasping and underhand manner.

It is so difficult.

I dont want to seem like the meddling daughter. I have always just wanted to try and help. It is going to upset my dad to write the letter. But I think it is important for him to regain some control, and to show the lawyer where the land lies.

I dont feel comfortable bringing up any of us having POA, I can ask my dad of course. Not sure what POA would achieve?

I was actually talking to the lawyer last year if HE could have some sort of POA or legal guardianship. He did say he could provide such services if necessary.

I dont have POA for my mum, but have authority on her accounts, and keep a spreadsheet and receipts for all purchases I make on her behalf. Too late now for anything else due to her dementia.

I'd be concerned about whether the solicitor was conflicted from
Acting. He can't advise both your sister and dad, and you need to be sure he is acting in the best interests of your dad.

It's all about trust, isn't it - it doesn't sound like you can trust your sister as far as you can throw her, at least where money/assets are concerned - in the cottage-build example you give, her households share should only have been 25% according to input, but she baulked at 1/3 and wanted 50:50!! Her recent behaviour shows that she's prepared to be sneaky, and rest assured that, regardless of how much you support your DPs (and how little she does) in their final years, she will regard the inheritance as 50% hers. You may well - from the kind & fair tone of your posts - be accepting of that, but be alert to attempts to get her hands on more, in a way that you wouldn't dream of, because of the kind of person she is sounds like. Good job your dad has her sussed.

Hi Quint,

As a will writer myself I suspect that the lawyer may have suggested to your father that he severs the joint tenancy on the house as this would potentially limit the amount of care home fees which could be paid out of the equity to half (severing the joint tenancy would create two freestanding interests). I would, however, be very surprised if the lawyer also suggested putting the property into the joint names of your father and sister, in an attempt to get out of paying care homes as local authorities have been wise to that for a very long time and will not usually accept the transfer as valid.

Certainly if your mother already lacks capacity to deal with the property and there is no power of attorney in place then someone would have to apply to the Office of the Public Guardian for a guardianship order (which has the same effect as a power of attorney).

As others have said, this should be dealt with simply by your father writing to the lawyer to confirm that he does not have any intention of gifting any part of the property to anyone (tho' severing the joint tenancy would be a good idea).

The lawyer will have sent your dad a draft will for him to consider and approve; can you get a look at it?

Whilst your father has capacity the only person that the solicitor can take instructions from is your father. The solicitor can only discuss it if your father consents. We don't know if they did discuss it with your sister (they may have been politely listening and being non-committal, not great as they should have said 'you need to talk to your own solicitor. I have a conflict.')

To be honest I dont really know what to do now. Mumble, my parents live in Norway, so I think everything works quite differently. Carehome fees are 75% of income whatever the income, ie state pension in my mums case. Property or other assets are sheltered from any such fees.

Initially when the letter arrived my dad found it all very strange. He asked me to dig out old paperwork, so I have found the original prenup from 1955, a variation to the terms of their marriage stating the prenup invalid and joint ownership of all assets from 1998, together with a joint will leaving everything equally to me and my sister. All signed, and witnessed, and drawn up by lawyers.

Bear in mind my dad had a stroke in 2002, gaps in his memory and poor short term memory.

So last night, he remembered having spoken to the lawyer about hypothetically transferring ownership to my sister and how to safeguard that her ex would never get his hands on the property. Lawyer had said there were no guarantees as sisters daughter would be free to do with the property as she wanted, once she had ownership. But he is very vague.

I would not be surprised if my sister was able to convince him this is the right thing to do, his mental capacity is not as it once was, after all he is 86. He said "I guess I just have to push myself to live a few years longer in case you and your dh returns and can take on ownership.

I just have a lump in my stomach and most of all feel like just walking away from it and let them do whatever they want.

I dont need this house. I dont even need 50% of it. What I do need is to not have family that is conspiring behind my back while at the same time talking to me and behaving like I am a friend.

It is not about the house.

It's not about the house, but it is about fairness for you and your DS's.

Unfortunately, the only way to ensure fairness is to ensure that the future of the house is clear.

Do not walk away from it all - at the very least, if you don't want the money, ensure that it is in trust for your DS's.

This is horrible for you. I would fight, I remember some of your previous posts when you were living the and really taking on the burden of caring for your dps.

Your dad seems quite confused about what he wants to happen to the house - either give it to your sister, or to you and your DH, rather than to split it. Is that your understanding? I think you need to have a frank conversation with him. I know you don't want the whole thing but don't be so darn nice about it that your sister gets half of your family home when both your dps expressed a wish that it should be split when they were in better health than they are now

quint I remember previous threads now that I have read this. I am so sorry you are stuck with all of this. Been in a similar position.

As much as you dont want it to be about the house/money etc I feel that you have to ensure that things are done fairly and that means sorting your Fathers property/s and all other assets legally so that nobody can go behind your back. Once that is done and cant be changed then maybe things can be more equal between you and your sister.

Sending you strength to deal with this.

How upsetting for your father. I think your dad needs an appointment at his solicitors to confirm joint ownership has ceased and the house is to be fairly split. I also think the solicitor will need to be the executive of the will as I think your sister is going to try all sorts once your dads passed sadly.

Don't walk away, your mum and dad worked hard for that house for you and your sister to ultimately benefit. Wether it's £5 or £500,000 they did it for you.

Quint, really sorry you have such an awful situation to deal with.

Mumble, thanks for that information re. guardianship - very helpful for dh. (His Mum has lost capacity during the lengthy process of obtaining power of attorney, thanks to mistakes first by dh's family filling in the form, and then by the office of the public guardian, the beggars - the irony that their mistake means power of attorney is no longer an option is not lost on us... we need to protect MIL from exploitation by unscrupulous con-men, who have already had thousands of pounds off her - she's vulnerable to anyone turning up on the doorstep or calling up offering her what she thinks is a sensible financial investment...)