Never getting married...how do I get over the upset?

[WeddingUpset]

My 'D'P has basically announced we will never be married. On paper the reasoning is sound (it's a big expense that could be put to other things), but it still makes me feel desperately sad.

How do I get over these feelings? I'm currently sat here quietly sobbing, I just need advice on how to stop feeling this way

[commeuneimage]

There was mention of there not being a tax issue if an unmarried couple owned their property jointly and one of them died. That is not correct - there could be inheritance tax to pay if the property is worth over £650,000. The surviving partner does inherit the house, but the half-share he or she receives is only exempt from inheritance tax if they are married (or in a civil partnership). Sorry if this is pedantic, but it's an important point which a lot of people don't appreciate.

[CleopatrasAsp]

WorrySigh that is a very good point. Wills etc can be changed unilaterally and without the other partner's knowledge, so if someone really wanted to screw you over they could do that quite easily if you weren't married, whereas a marriage can only be dissolved with the knowledge of both parties, at which point you are then protected by the divorce legalitites.

I'm of the opinion that if a bloke didn't want to marry me then there's no bloody way on earth I'd have his children and I really don't understand the people that say that having children with a man is commitment enough - no it isn't, men leave children all the time without a backward glance. At least if you are married you and your children are afforded some financial and legal protection.

I have to say that I've also found that men who profess loudly that they don't want to get married are usually the type to string a woman along for years before they dump her (and any children they have had together) in order to marry the woman they really do want to marry. I've seen it happen so many times.

I am a harsh sod though and have immediately dumped blokes that announced they weren't ever interested in marriage - usually much to their surprise 'cause they think they're such a catch. My DH could quite easily have just lived together but he loved me enough to marry me because I wouldn't have stayed around if he hadn't and he wanted to be with me that much. That's how it should be in my opinion, a man should be desperate to be with you, not laying down rules about not getting married.

[TheCraicDealer]

If he doesn't want to get married for moral or ideological reasons, fair fucks. If that was the case, OP you should've debated the issue before you got this far down the line, had two kids, jacked in your job and moved away from your support network to be with someone whose views are so diametrically opposed to your own.

But that doesn't seem to be what's happening here. He's giving you excuses, not reasons. If he cared about having a cheapie wedding and people "judging" you then he'd consider just going to a registry office on a Tuesday afternoon and not telling anyone, just to make you happy. But he's saying "no" using an argument that, if he were a woman, would be seen as weak, materialistic and just a bit shit.

[SolidGoldBrass]

I agree completely that it's fine to object to marriage as a patriarchal institution or for any other valid reasons. I have never been married and I never will; I am not even interested in having a couple-relationship.
But if that's how the OP's partner feels, that's not what he's saying. He's said they can't afford a lavish wedding, so there will be no marriage, and appears to have said it in such a way that he intends to shut down any discussion of the issue. That's what's unfair and wrong in this situation. Particularly as the OP appears to have said to him that she doesn't want the white frock and the stately home and the meal for 5000 close friends.

[WorrySighWorrySigh]

That marriage can end with divorce is another part of its importance. At the very point when a relationship breaks down, when no one is being 'the bigger person' when no one is talking and it is everyone for themselves that divorce forces people to behave at least halfway decently. You have to declare assets. Ultimately you have to talk even if it is through mediators.

This is not the case when you are not married. Especially when one half is a SAHP. It is very easy for the employed and mobile partner to be somewhere else and with someone else, taking all the assets with them.

[curryeater]

scottishmummy, the op can take steps to gain access to material fruits of her future labours - by making sure they are the sort of labours which attract financial reward - but this will do nothing to recompense her for her labour to date, being a sahp and supporting her partner (by childcare if in no other respect, which I doubt) to the extent that he is able to own property. I don't know how old the op is but if she is, say, around 30, well I would not want to write off my work to date at the age of 30 and start from scratch.
However this doesn't solve the "public declaration of love and commitment " thing anyway

It is not as if the two are separate really. A public announcement of commitment and esteem is naturally connected to a financial agreement that recognises the non-earning partner's labour. A lack of respect for the person and for their labour can be intertwined.

I don't say that not to marry someone is not to respect them (I am not married to my dp whom I respect very much). but to refuse to listen to them when they talk about what they want, and to refuse to share, shows a certain lack of respect.

[noddyholder]

Agree with scottishmummy these views are sad. Take control of your own lives and stop placing men in this 'role' and then complaining about it.

[FucktidiaBollockberry]

Ah yes because women "place" men in this role and then whinge.

Nothing to do with men's choices or actions at all, no, not ever, they are passively placed by women, they don't do any placing of their own.

[ExpatAl]

I really think the OP should find work and get empowerment for herself and not beg the dp to marry or continue the subject. He might feel very differently when she's not under the thumb...

However, the rubbish excuses the dp is giving for not wanting to marry are another thing. I don't buy any of the reasons he has given and the OP needs to give some serious thought to what that means.

[Viviennemary]

It does matter to you. So why does it matter so much to him not to be married. I would think seriously about ending the relationship if he is not willing to make the commitment of marriage. But it's up to you. If you are quite happy with the situation then fine. But you are so obviously not.

[scottishmummy]

The habitual advice to ophassaidher been marry for security,for finances
So actually it is putting her in role of needing male security as housewife
So,don't be housewife,get own monies and dint hope for security via a male

[FucktidiaBollockberry]

This is all very well in theory SM but not much use to the OP in the position she is at the moment.

She has to go from where she is right now, not where it would be ideal for her to start from.

Actually, if she were in the ideal place, she wouldn't need any advice because there wouldn't be a problem.

[Viviennemary]

There is no ideal place. Getting married doesn't solve every problem even though I personally am in favour of marriage.

[curryeater]

dp and I both work full time. We pay a lot of money for childcare. If we didn't have two salaries we couldn't afford it, but as there are two of us, if we didn't have two salaries one of us would be free for childcare. If dp or I died*, the person left would be in the financially uncomfortable position of having to fund full time childcare for two small children from one salary. Actually I don't think it is possible. Perhaps some benefits would kick in? (not sure as both of us are not anywhere near minimum wage), but that isn't exactly independence. It is mistaken to think that having a good job = independence. Unless you have a stratospherically good job, you still need the other person. I think we are being very misleading if we imply that relatinships don't matter because getting a good job means you don't need anyone. It is not a great way to get on in life.

*yes alright in real life we have life assurance, but ykwim. I said "died" and not "buggered off" because if one of us buggers off, we still have financial responsbility for our own children

[scottishmummy]

Utter rot,the majority advice of get married for "security" as housewife
It's 21c no woman needs to find security wholly through marriage.
op,any woman,can study,volunteer expand opportunities,look for employment ake her own security rather than advice to marry for security

Plenty course on line,local colleges, volunteering.these are things op can do for herself.

It is really sad that the advice if security/protection is via man and marriage.what about making your own security being autonomous and able to provide for self.other than hoping for big day and man to make security

Housewife is precarious state,I'd address that rather than marry

[KeepCoolCalmAndCollected]

Putting aside all the practicalities, good old fashioned marriage IS very important to the OP.
Unfortunately you cannot switch this desire on and off. If it is deep-rooted, it never goes away, not even if you are doing a great course, got a good career etc etc.
Sorry to sound harsh op, but he does sound as if he is protecting his own interests, and is not wholly committed to you.
Please keep posting because having been in your position (but without children) I really do know how you feel, and I hope it works out for you.

[scottishmummy]

Marriage is deep personal preference,and love is wonderful thing
But as individual and parent,marriage isn't universal panacea.nor is it automatically security
If op wishes to marry,fine.but don't be wholly dependent upon another for your security

[KeepCoolCalmAndCollected]

Good point scottishmummy, but think we've all got that now!

[scottishmummy]

Presumably to be fair youll go back to those advising get married for security
And say ach we've got that now,you've made your point

[Chandon]

Well....

The point is that it is better to be a married sahm, than an unmarried sahm, unless you have organised will and contract through solicitor.

The fact that he refuses to marry you, shows he does not care much about your feelings. So no wonder you are upset.

Finding a job, whilst that may well be a good idea, is not going to change the fact that he does not care enough about your feelings.

His excuses sound feeble. Either he is a bit of a dick, or else he does not love you enough to care...

You cannot MAKE someone marry you, but you can sit down with a solicitor and make a proper will, and a cohabit. Contract ( much like gay couples do). If he refuses that too, you may have to wonder whether he is trying to keep his options open, and for what reason...

[ExpatAl]

Good points, Chandon.

[FucktidiaBollockberry]

Yes I think you're missing the bit about the actual relationship SM.

It's perfectly possible for women to be financially independent of men and behave as if they are soleley responsible for their own money, children, orgasms and emotional state.

However, most people in a partnership have an interdependent relationship, they aren't living these peculiar atomised lives where all they're sharing is the house and domestic labour / childcare.

I think you're ignoring the emotional side of this.

The big red flag for me, is that the OP's DP is not ideologically opposed to marriage. He's just opposed to marrying her.

[scottishmummy]

I'm missing nothing.he doesn't want to marry her.she housewife in precarious position
The majority advice is marry for finance,Be legally tied for security
it's 21c women not only have option of male protection.it sad to so vigorously advocate marriage to protect housewife

[KeepCoolCalmAndCollected]

scottishmummy
You're just not getting it.
Perhaps one day when you meet the right person you will.

[FucktidiaBollockberry]

You know what, she can do both.

She can have financial security from working in a cash job and she can have financial security from being married.

What she can't have is financial security being an unmarried SAHM.

You have really made your point, that she should go and get a paid job. And now you're going to bang on about it ad nauseum, aren't you. That may not be possible or a solution to the whole problem right now. Even if she goes and gets a job, when he leaves her and takes his share of the assets and income with him, she'll still have a problem because chances are she'll have done more of the childcare and domestic work than he has and as a result whatever money she can earn will have been compromised compared to his earning potential.

And you can say that she shouldn't allow that to happen, but frankly she's not really in a position to negotiate, is she. He has all the power here, I think we're agreed on that. But you are insisting that there is only one solution to that. There isn't. There's a whole lot more going on than just her failure to have protected her own long term interests.