Parents - do they really affect your own parenting skills?

[debster]

Sorry this is long.

I have posted on Mumsnet before about my troubled relationship with my ds. Since he was about 3 years old (he will be 5 next week) I have had a very tempestuous relationship with him. I find it hard to be patient when he is naughty and lose my temper very quickly. I also find I get easily annoyed by him often for minor incidents. The situation reached a climax when my dd was born 16 months ago. I would fly off the handle at the slightest thing and occasionally (much to my shame) I ended up smacking him. As a result I sought help via my health visitor who referred me to the Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service (CAMHS). I attended sessions with CAMHS for about 8 months and I found them to be useful in helping me to understand why ds was behaving the way he was - basically attention seeking. However, what wasn't explained was my reaction. It was suggested that I get some personal counselling to explore these issues. I managed to get some sessions through work and what transpired was my parents relationship with me has affected the way I treat my children. Apparently my father's aggressive (smackings/beatings) behaviour with me has affected the way I deal with ds. So when he starts to annoy me I immediately go into aggressive mode. This obviously makes the situation worse. I know I should ignore bad behaviour etc but for some reason the rational side of me goes out of the window when it's ds. Actually having said that I also react badly to dp when he annoys me too. I would really like to change this side of me but for some reason I find it really hard to accept that my own upbringing has made me this way. I have now been given the opportunity to have some further counselling but am unsure whether to go back as I feel I am trying to blame my parents for my own problems. So I suppose my question is are our parents to blame for the way we behave and I suppose more importantly is there anything I can do to change the way I am. I am determined to do something about it because I don't want to affect my ds any more than he already has been. I just don't know how. At the moment my dd can do no wrong in my eyes but I am terrified she will receive the same treatment as ds when she starts to become more independent.

Any advice?

Well I think that of course our parents (and other influences) have a marked inpact on how we behave and react to things. However, I think as adults we can choose how to behave. We can accept or reject the behaviour patterns displayed by our parents when deciding how we want to behave and deal with things in our life.

So yes, your parents may have affected your underlying reaction to your DS but you can choose whether to accept this or reject this. It sounds to me like you want to reject it but don't really know how. It also sounds from your description that what might help is anger management help. This will give you the mechanisms to stop long enough to alter your initial response to your DS whenever your feel yourself becoming aggressive. In time you effectively 'train' the bad response away!

HTH - sounds like you want to change! There was also a thread on here a while ago from someone who wanted to change the way she reacted to her DS and she was very successful at making changes and they worked in a very short time.

Try reading "they F* you up" by Oliver James. It explores exactly this issue, but is not about blaming your parents, just understanding how they affected you and using that understanding to help you to stop your upbringing affecting you. I have to admit I only got to Chapter 3, but I am going to go back and read it all at some point

Yes I do want to change jmg and have tried ignoring him, walking away, getting my dp to take over, being calm etc. These work to start with (usually when I am buoyed up after a session with the counsellor) but it all goes wrong when I am not actively thinking about my behaviour. I often lose it when my defenses are low eg when I am tired, stressed or pre-menstrual. I think my main difficulty is the fact I have to constantly think about my reactions to what ds is doing. My natural response is to lose it and I am having to suppress those instincts. I wish I could change my personality so that I didn't react in these ways. I hate shouting at ds and I always feel crap afterwards (and much worse when I have smacked him) but don't know how to make it better. When I was little and my Dad would cuddle me after a beating I would always be thinking "yeah but what about the next time?"

Prufrock - I'll try and get hold of a copy of the book but am not sure how effective it will be in getting me to change my behaviour. I know this is a flippant comment but sometimes I feel like I need a lobotomy.

Thanks for your replies in any case.

Debste you reallya re not alone - see \link
www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=8&threadid=6571&stamp=030903195225\this thread{} for lots of other peoples experiences and advice

Debster you really are not alone. see this thread for lots of other peoples experiences and advice

That's better!

I think my parents' bad examples (not all bad, but they did a bad job in some areas) have taught me a lot about what NOT to do.

Debster I can relate to what you're saying. My parents smacked me when I was young (the ol' wooden spoon was used as a threat many times), but the thing that seems to have affected me most is that my mother has always taken her negative feelings out on me. I was always made to feel guilty for things that weren't my fault or my responsibility, she has criticised me many, many times over the years and she has a VERY sharp tongue. I remember feeling that I was just unable to be myself when I was around her. My father was also quite bad-tempered too, particularly during my teenage years. I finally got to the point in my twenties, I think, where all of a sudden I just felt this rage. If dh criticised me for the slightest thing I would fly off the handle, and I seem to have a temper now that I never had before. I just feel angry a lot of the time but not really sure why . Like you I also tend to get annoyed easily with my 3 year old and can overreact about things he does, but I'm aware of it and am trying to handle my feelings better. Yesterday I found a counsellor that I'm going to start seeing, because I seem to have certain issues which I'm positive are related to my childhood.

So you're not alone, I think we just have to be aware of what we're doing and try to find ways of overcoming our feelings. It can be very hard but you're doing the right thing by seeking help... good luck.

Please do go for more counselling. The aim of looking at your own experiences is not to 'blame' but to understand and move on. Of course your parenting will affect you for good and ill - otherwise we could all be brought up in solitary confinement and come out the same. I think you should go for the counselling for the sake of your son. Your father's incredibly aggressive (and I would say pretty abusive) treatment of you will have left its mark but you CAN change. Book the counselling and try to believe that you can and will change as that is half the battle won.

I think it can help you both to apologise to your son if you have been cruel or unreasonable. I always apologise to mine.

My relationship with my sons seems to have benefited from my dysfunctional childhood.
I just do the opposite of everything (almost) that my mum did, and it turns out fine!
She was a great example of how not to be, and I find it easy to be obstinate and to 'mend' my childhood be being loving and present when she was absent and indifferent. I seem to get a great sense of achievement from it, but I think that's because I'm in my thirties. When I was in my twenties, whenever I looked after children for people, these awful resentful urges would come over me and I'd be tempted to 'act out' a bit, so I do know where you're coming from, Debster.
I have to admit that due to my mum's absences, I was brought up by other family members, who did set me a good example, so I have that to fall back on too.

i really feel for you debster having had an 'unstable' childhood. having been to 4 different counsellors i found it not that helpful to 'relive' my experiences. all i knew was i wanted to change my outlook and responses which seems to be what your looking to do?
all i can tell you is what worked for me:
*surrender/let go of what happened, try and not hold on to the past
*the way i manage to do this is through meditation - i went on a course called transcendtental meditation (you are suppose to do this 20mins twice a day - impossible with 2 ds's! i use it when i go to sleep
*look at what are the triggers for the tantrums - could they be avoided? could you use distraction or communicate what you need differently?
*i have talked about this on other posts. i went on a course called NVC(non-violent communication or compassionate communication) which has been life changing for our family. see www.cnvc.org then find links to articles on parenting
i know its bloomin exhausting but you have to be the role model to your ds if he sees how well you can manage your emotions you will be helping him learn how to manage his own. it is very hard work but very rewarding wheb you start to see the difference. one day i had bought my ds a helium balloon which unfortunately he let go of my old response would have been 'oh s*t and lets buy another one'. my ds started crying - and instead i said 'oh wow, look its gone to find the sun - bye balloon' sounds a bit knitted yogurt i know but it worked he then waved goodbye and accepted it.
my nursery teacher is an absolute gem and has helped me realise there is no such thing as a naughty child- are they tired/ hungry/don't understand what is being asked of them could you help/model alongside what you want them to do? my ds loves throwing lots of little toys in the air - i use to think he was being 'naughty' and not 'playing appropriately' with his toys. she helped me read about 'vertical schemas' Piaget and made me realised he is trying to make sense of the world
*also read a brilliant book called 'buddhism - pure and simple' by steve hagen. it has helped me stop being so angry at the world/my parents and live in the 'now'
*don't want to patronise its exhausting with 1 child, but when there are 2....there are no words to describe how knackering it is. i have 2 ds's ( 4 and 8 months) i try and sleep when they sleep otherwise i'm the one having the tantrums

Thank you all for the responses. My main worry about the counselling is how will all the introspection help me to stop my rages with ds? And that is what they are. I really do seem to be unable to prevent it and have this uncontrollable need to release it. If I don't it boils away inside. The classic seething with resentment. I just want to be able to accept that when ds does naughty things it is a normal part of his growing up and not a personal attack on me (which is how I view it). I will have a look at the website you mention Shrub as that is exactly what I want to achieve - non violent communication. It's just so hard to behave differently all of a sudden. I know it's taken me years to get to this point and will probably be years before I change. I HATE the fact I am reflecting my dad's behaviour to me with my own children. The irony is my dad's behaviour with ds is exemplary and I have no qualms about leaving him with him for a weekend and ds loves being with him.

Debster, ask your GP (or whoever is offering counselling) to refer you to a cognitive behavioural therapist. This form of counselling does not 'dwell' on the past but deals with finding practical ways to challenge false beliefs (like 'he's deliberately doing this to upset me" and find new ways of tackling it. It is considered the most successful form of behaviour-changing therapy and I really, really think you should give it a try.
Re the anger - it is a total myth that venting your anger makes you healthier or even less angry. It doesn't - it psychologically primes the body to get more angry, flooding you with euphoric hormones that make anger temporarily pleasurable. The best way to deal with angry feelings, according to experts is withdrawal and distraction - ie get away from the situation, even if it means walking to the next room, then distracting yourself with something pleasant and absorbing - this can be anything from listening or jumping about to to upbeat music, calling a friend to talk about something other than your rage, just grabbing your son and getting out to the shops or the park or anywhere where you cannot vent at him. I hate to say this, but it is damaging to children to be like this with them. On the other hand you can change and it doesn't have to take years, and rage isn't uncontrollable unless you let it get out of hand. The vital thing is to tackle your anger at the first prickle of annoyance (not later when it's built up into a rage) by rushing out of the house or doing something distracting or even just cuddling your son. I have a fierce temper and I have to work on controlling it so I do know how you feel. But I am determined not let my son grow up in an angry household, which is how I grew up.

I also TOTALLY agree with Shrub re naughtiness.

Aloha- I just had an argument with DH (about household chores.... what else is new!!!!) and I did exactly what you said (before I read your post).... I left the room rather than reply back and get angry (though I was tempted).... went to my room for 5 mins... and then went on to clean another room.... stayed away from him.... haven't really spoken yet either but it's lunchtime soon - so will do then !

I would just like to say how brave and sensible you are Debster, in voicing your fears that you are repeating learned parental behaviour and looking for a way to solve it.

And I would also like to say, once again, how wonderful MN is. Just this morning I was looking for an answer to this negative behaviour cycle and sure enough MNers are dealing with it.

I don't have any issues about the way I treat my kids, but I do find myself compelled to repeat my parent's bickering, snidey, childish way of realting to one another with DH and the, understandable, after-effects are getting noticed by DS1 and I don't want him to grow up thinking bickering and sniping is the way mummies and daddies communicate.

I am aware of certain triggers and the sorrow having to witness this kind of behaviour caused me when I was a child, so I try my hardest to walk away, not instigate it etc. But now I realise that I need to have some counselling to stop becoming paranoid that this learned negative behaviour will effect my parenting skills and my kids' ability to relate to me. So thankyou, Aloha the sage, for the CTB tip. I really need to get this sorted out so I can get on with the present and the future and learn to let go. And also to give my DH a break.

Each time I call my mum on the phone, after I have turned in to a petulant 14 year old, I find myself asking her about the reason she made behind some paretning decision or asking her if she knew she made me feel a certain way, and although I get answers and can identify feeelings and eventually let it go, it really effects me badly and before I can get it out of my system I have to replicate her negative behaviour towards me and the bickering patterns with my dad/poor DH before I can let go.(needling, verbal fencing, button pushing, poo-poo-ing, sneering, always getting in the last word, creating tension and then all blown over by a nice cup of tea, carry on as though nothing has happened and people don't feel wounded). And I don't want my kids to hear me do this anymore.

Blimey, what a thread hi-jack, and how tedious to read, I shall get up off the couch now.
Thanks again for the advice and good luck Debster, you can do it.

Debster - I have been wondering the same too.... My parents never really showed much (if any) love..... I am "sure" thety loved me.... but we NEVER kissed, cuddled or hugged. We now kiss as it is the thing people do but not as a sign of love (more like a standard greeting). I have taken the opposite attitude with my kids... I kiss/hug/cuddle/... and tell them how wonderful, clever, sweet, funny they are.... maybe too often sometimes (hey we can't be perfect ) - I think being aware of your behaviour is one step, trying to find a solution/explanation is a second step - so to me you sound on the right track....
Let us know how this evolves as I am very interested in this topic.

Pupuce, I use the advice (which I've written and read about) myself. Last Thursday I woke up feeling unreasonably unpleasant and ratty - just one of those 'short-fuse' days, and I found myself getting nastily cross with ds so I went into the kitchen to get my breath and then ran around like a loony bundling us both into clothes ASAP so we could get out to see a friend. By the time we got back, the temper had dissolved and we had a lovely lunch and ds went to sleep. I knew I was 'on the verge' and I had to do something. I have the potential to be really vile, I know I have. But if I do lose my temper, ds really panics and sobs and I feel disgusted with myself afterwards so it's so worth the effort for me not to do it.

Debster, I would also say that counselling may be a good way for you to break out of the pattern you find yourself in. I don't think you should see it as finding someone to blame (ie your parents), but simply as a way of becoming aware of what is beneath your temper, what your trigger points are, and so on. That way, you can gradually learn to avoid them. I had a similar chilhood to the one you describe, in that my mother had a ferocious temper and if she was unhappy in her work (which was often) she would take it out on us when she got home. When I find myself about to go ballistic (or having gone ballistic as, let's face it, is there anyone who never loses it with an uncooperative 3/4/5 year old?) I remember the effect of my mother's temper on my family's life. I am also looking into something like CBT just to try and mend a lot of negative feelings that I get, and that contibute to me falling of a generally even keel. Ks's point about whether or not your parents said sorry is very important, I think. My mother refused to admit that she was wrong about things until very late in her life, and I feel that if she had apologised or tried to explain why she was so angry and that at times it was not to do with us, it would have helped a lot. So, the fact that you are looking to change what is happening between you and your ds is an incredibly positive thing and I'm sure it is something that will make a huge difference to your lives. Good luck, and I would be really interested to hear how you get on.