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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Difficult situation with ex's family - advice sought...(I'm the daddy)

28 replies

bigtreelittletree · 15/03/2013 15:50

Hi. I just signed up to this site after a couple of days reading the advice on here. Have realised there a lot of people on here with first hand experience of tricky situations and have come to join my appeal for help to the pack.

I met my ex at work, having lost her job in IT she ended up temping where I was working.

We got on well, and after a few weeks when she got an in to another IT job, this time for a charity I thought I'll be very sad not seeing her again so I gave her my number, asked her out..

Forward a few months and I moved out of my flat and into hers. Were happy and we had a good time together. She met my mum and dad a few times and they were pleased I was happy living with her, made her feel welcome etc.

Then in october 2009 while I was away she phoned me to say she might be pregnant - ok take a test - she wouldn't until I came home, which I did. Test +ve.

This is where things get tricky. She had not told her family about living with me. She joked about me living in a warehouse to them - actually I had stored some of my stuff that had accumulated at my flat into a friends warehouse.. the reason she gave for telling her family I was living there was its easier for me that way, "you don't understand my family"

Anyway she would not tell her family about the pregnancy, and she told me she wanted to have an abortion. I thought this was a big mistake and tbh I am squeemish about the thought of taking life like that and didn't want it but said its legally part of her organism and the final decision is hers.

Then she tells her family that she is pregnant and next thing I know they are summoning me to a meeting at her sisters house.

My ex never really mentioned strong religious views, we had been sleeping together for months.

Her sister said I had to marry my ex right away in a religious islamic ceremony arranged by her otherwise would have to get rid of the baby.

In the end my ex had an appointment booked on the day of the "wedding" to terminate the pregnancy and she would only phone to cancel on the way to her sisters house when she was sure I would go through with the ceremony.

The Imam at first didn't want to marry us because he thought I was not a muslim (to be a muslim you have to accept the prophet as final messenger etc.) which I did but he was grilling me about my background etc.

My mum and dad made it very clear before hand that this is a big mistake etc. but at the time all I thought was this allows me to live with my GF and baby, and avoids killing our daughter.

Then the problems started. We rented a new bigger flat together. Her sister insisted we lie about the progression of the pregnancy because if people in their "community" were to find out about her "shame"??! noone would talk to their family (they are Bangladeshi people).

This included one of her sisters, who the others didnt trust., we had to lie and tell her the baby was premature when she came out on the 2nd day after her due date.

At one scan we got a print out of our dd and I was so proud I put it on our fridge, later that day when my then partner found it she ripped it off and started shouting "my sister will see the date and the number of weeks and work out that I was pregnant before getting married and will tell the "community" are you crazy etc???

I kept argueing to at least tell her "non-trusted" sister, but she refused.

When the baby came things got really weird. My mum came to stay with us and we invited GF's sisters to come round. The one who had arranged the 'marriage' would not say hello to my mother, and when mum asked her "I've made some dinner, will you eat with us?" she looked at her feet and walked away without acknowledging the question.

Soon she stopped talking to my OH completely. She would send her husband round with notes and was telling her that she has ruined the family if she wanted to live with a "Kaffir" (non-muslim) the least she could have done was moved to another city.

As an auntie to her sisters 2 kids my ex was very angry and upset but what could she do. For 18 months the sister ignored her calls and would just send horrible notes to her about me.

It was affecting her mental health and mine too.. in the end I had to leave. I moved out of the flat and we split up which eventually allowed her sister to come back in her life.

Since then we have successfully coparented our dd. If she needs someone to sit in and play with dd while she calls me, I take our little one out to parks, museums.. I pay some of EX's bills but not all.

The problem is her sister is constantly causing problems because she hates me. She wants DD to be without a father rather than have me.

The sister found out where my parents are and sent them an unsigned anonymous letter vaguely threatening, and then refused to acknowledge it was her. My parents thought it was funny, poor english, very whiney about how I was not a good person etc. etc. because I had caused problems for their family.

If I am with our daughter and the sister comes over to the flat where DD and EX live I have to leave, go to my car and then drive out of the car park before she will get out of her car and come upstairs. She actually thinks that being in the same car park as a 'Kaffir' will damage her and her children.

Then last year at about this time my ex got a letter from the job centre saying her benefits were being cut off etc. etc. When she attended the interview the guy was actually sympathetic. He explained that an anonymous call to the benefits helpline had been made and it had been reported that her ex (me!) was living in the flat. She explained I have my own flat, we get on with each other and I come regularly to sit with DD or take her out to the park etc. The guy was sympathetic and without much fuss reinstated her benefits.

At this time her sister had stopped replying to her calls and texts.

Now forward to this year my ex had a falling out with the sister and the sister ended their phone conversation by saying some very unpleasant things to her and putting the phone down. She would not respond to calls or texts. About 5 days after this EX gets another letter from the job centre, same as last time.

I said to her it was her sister and we need to put a stop to this. She refused to acknowledge it was her sister and she said "how could my own sister do that, leave me with no money etc. etc." and refused to believe it. The sister clearly wants me to leave the ex and daughter alone completely because I'm a cancerous non muslim ("Kaffir") presence in their lives. My ex is caught between giving DD access to her dad and not being cut off from her only family (their parents were old and have died - other family not in same city).

I tried emailing the sister in the past to say that this hiding away etc. is silly and why can't we just put this problem to one side and be adults.

She sent an email to ex which she forwarded to me saying if he tries to call me email or come near me I will call the police and tell them he is harassing me/stalking me.

The sister has a husband who is away a lot, and when he's away she insists on my ex, + our dd going to live at her place (which is dusty and makes DD sneeze btw). During this time I have no opportunity to see my dd except if ex comes back to her flat for something while I'm free, and even then only for 15mins or so. Ex has to coordinate visits covertly by texting from sisters bathroom etc. because if she answered the phone to me her sister would go mad.

When her sister had her house redecorated one of her children was frightened of the bare walls so sister informed my EX that her, her 2 kids, and her husband would be staying in EX's 1 bed flat for "about a month" During this time I only saw my dd a couple of times and she said to me "daddy don't leave" when I had to go because the sister was coming back.

My family think I should be talking to Lawyers to establish some formal access as the situation is so tricky but I'm not sure.

Any thoughts at all appreciated. Just telling the story to strangers is therapeutic tbh.. own friends and family are inevitably already strong in their opinions. Thanks for taking the time to read it.. anyone been in a similar situation? Sad

OP posts:
WorraLiberty · 15/03/2013 16:09

Sorry you're having a tough time of it.

I have no advice other than to tell you that you've unfortunately picked a very quiet part of Mumsnet to post this in.

Can I suggest you copy and paste your opening post and start the thread again in Relationships? I'm sure you'll get some advice there.

Here's a link for you

bigtreelittletree · 15/03/2013 16:12

Thanks..Is it ok to post to two sections?

OP posts:
JammySplodger · 15/03/2013 16:13

That sounds like a very messed up situation, and one that's not going to get sorted while the relationship between you, your ex and her sister remains the same.

I agree that you should seek legal advice about getting formal access arrangements set up to see your DD. How would you ex be about this? Is she supportive of you seeing / caring for your DD?

I think your ex needs to deal with her sister herself, that's not something you can change. She sounds slightly bonkers to be honest (the sister, not your ex), and very controlling. She's not going to make it any easier on you as your DD gets older.

I'm inclined to suggest too that the religious reasons for disliking you are a red herring, it sound like she just dislikes you and for some reason always has. And I'd be inclined to suggest you just treat it as you would any other separation, deal with the practicalities, making them formal if needed.

JammySplodger · 15/03/2013 16:15

It is okay to post in two sections, though this is quite a quiet one.

I think you can report your own opening post and ask MN to move your thread to relationships if you want, there are lots of helpful folk over there.

JammySplodger · 15/03/2013 16:16

And I've just thought too, your ex actually sounds quite controlling too, with the whole 'marry me or I'll abort'. That' definitely not good.

ImTooHecsyForYourParty · 15/03/2013 16:24

I think you have to go down the legal route.

Yes, it would be nice if you didn't have to, but it sounds like this woman is never going to let that happen and your ex is, for whatever reason, unable to stand up to her.

You have to focus on your daughter. She has a right to have you in her life and you have to continue to make sure that happens.

What about going to - please forgive my ignorance, I don't know the correct terms, but I mean those people in the community that are religious leaders for her local mosque - and talking with them. Saying that you want to be a part of your child's life and your child has the right to not have her relationship with her father sabotaged and see if they will talk to her and if she will agree that a child needs their father if it is coming from senior people within the mosque?

WorraLiberty · 15/03/2013 16:25

Sorry, yes it's fine to post in two sections.

And as Jammy said, you can ask for it to be moved over to there.

bigtreelittletree · 15/03/2013 16:27

Yeah - AFA lawyers go it is mainly to make sure that our DD sees her grandparents.. the issue now is they are not welcome at her place, and when they come here (live 250 miles away) and rent a flat so they can see their granddaughter EX comes round with DD, leaves her coat on and is very obstructive and pouty.

Any mention of taking DD away to her grandparents for one or two nights gets met with "Where she goes, I go" she also says my parents are "childish pensioners" and similar quite random needling things

OP posts:
Tee2072 · 15/03/2013 16:27

Just ask HQ to move the post.

purplewithred · 15/03/2013 16:30

Oh dear, I'm so sorry this is all so difficult when all you want is to be a good father.

Your DD is YOUR DD. She has the right to expect you to be a good father. Your ex's sister and to a degree your ex are preventing that from happening. This is wrong.

No amount of discussion, email etc is going to change your ex's sister's attitude to you or make this situation any easier.

I agree that you need to go the legal route: get a formal agreement in place that includes regular consistent maintenance and regular contact. You and DD then have the law on your side when it comes to contact.

This is not going to make your ex's sister any happier and you should expect her to carry on her horrible, uncharitable, bigoted ways. It may also be very difficult for ex as she seems incapable of standing up to her horrible sister - or is in agreement with her. But your DD has a right to a father and that is more important than anything else here.

Snorbs · 15/03/2013 16:35

Don't start with solicitors. It can raise the stakes all round and it can end up being a battle over who "wins" rather than what's best. Leave the solicitor until the last resort.

Your ex's barking mad sister is your ex's problem to deal with. Seriously, do not get involved otherwise you may find it becomes a "their family against you" thing. Don't contact the sister, ignore all contact from her (although keep a written record), don't rise to the bait. Whatever the sister's problem with you is it is none of your business. If she chooses to sit in a car rather than meet you then that's up to her. It should make no difference to you seeing your daughter.

I do think you need to formalise contact to some extent though. I'd start with a letter to your ex suggesting a schedule and base that schedule primarily on what is best for your daughter but also that will fit with your ex's (and your) responsibilities. There's no point saying you'll see your daughter at 3pm every other day if you have to be at work.

Make it clear that the suggested schedule is a starting point for negotiation not something that you are demanding, and be willing to compromise and be flexible. Do not discuss the sister, do not discuss anything to do with the sister, and keep any discussion regarding money completely and totally separate from discussion regarding contact. They are two separate things.

If that goes nowhere then the next step is mediation. You are not being unreasonable in requesting a contact schedule although be mindful that, sometimes, things happen and you need to be a bit flexible.

Finally, I'd recommend you join Families Need Fathers. They're a good bunch and you can get a huge amount of good advice about how to deal with these situations. Remember that you are playing the long game here. Your daughter will be part of your life forever. Your ex is caught between her mad as a bag of gerbils sister's demands and the fact that your daughter deserves both her parents in her life. Be gentle with your ex, but be mindful that this is fundamentally about what's best for your daughter, not what the sister thinks.

DeepRedBetty · 15/03/2013 16:38

I haven't (thank heaven) been in anything like your position - but I do know how to get a thread moved!

Click on 'report' at the right hand end of the blue bar above your own opening post.

Tick 'report for other reasons'

In the message box, ask HQ to move it to (probably) Relationships.

Having said - it's well up in Active Conversations now, which is how I found it. But Relationships has regular posters who are pretty clued up, some of whom do not look in other areas very often.

Catchingmockingbirds · 15/03/2013 16:48

I also think you should go down the legal route and have a formal arrangement in place to protect your relationship with your daughter. You've tried to maintain contact with dd for 2 years and there are still problems with you being allowed to see her.

bigtreelittletree · 15/03/2013 16:49

Snorbs - thanks! If I send a registered delivery letter suggesting a schedule...

I'm very lucky because I work 12.30 - 7pm in my own business, I have to leave home at about 11.40, so from 8am when I get up to then I'm free, and this is usually the time when EX asks me to come so she can go and do her shopping etc.

I texted EX to say we need some agreement in place now and she replied that she doesn't want to treat our daughter like an object and she won't agree to anything... So assuming she does the same after a written request... it might just push us both into needing lawyers....

I should add as well that my EX had a previous relationship with someone who was the love of her life and they wanted to start a family toghether but the same sister sabotaged that (same reason apparently, this guy was not of the "correct" background for her) and drove him away.

OP posts:
bigtreelittletree · 15/03/2013 16:52

What about a specific order to allow me to take our dd to see her grandparents? Would a lawyer be able to apply for this for me/does she have to tell me no in writing first?

OP posts:
bigtreelittletree · 15/03/2013 17:04

Incidentally - this happened in January this year:

Having passed her driving test, EX's sister asked to be put on the insurance for her car, so she could practice her driving (said husbands car too big for her) - when EX changed her insurance her sis agreed to give her £30/month for the increased premium as a new driver in their first year added this to the cost.

Then when sisters had a falling out (actually this was over their other "non-trusted" sister and nothing to do with me) her sister informed her that she has cancelled the standing order for the car insurance.

I told EX you need to change the insurance back you can't afford to keep paying it. She refused, was afraid the sister would cut her off completely like before... and is still paying it

I'm not happy about paying her quarterly electricity bill when she is losing 30 every month on this and for this reason... but what can I do?

OP posts:
Wishiwasanheiress · 15/03/2013 17:15

Gosh, rather complicated. I'm not experienced but having tried to read didn't want to leg it without offering sympathy! In a funny way they sound hooked on drama. Nearly every paragraph seems to have the duff duffers at the end. Must be draining to live with. My best advice is just pick ur battles than fight every one. Easy for me to say I realise op....

bigtreelittletree · 15/03/2013 17:32

Thanks Wishi... yes there is an addiction to drama in the family.

When they were growing up, their mother struggled and ended up singling out my EX for some pretty nasty treatment.. the other siblings kind of 'joined in' and ostracised her. She has some minor physical scars as well as emotional because her mother turned violent on her on occasion. What makes things worse is it was only to her, not the others.

When we were together and I first mentioned I want to leave we went to couples counselling together and when the counsellor started discussing EX's childhood she got very pouty and then at the end of the session we talked about the next session, and she was all yes we'll get in touch and then when we left the building and were in the street the first thing my EX said was "no way I'm going back there ever again"

Yes this is very draining. When this recent job centre letter came, it has brought on a whole new level of worry. OTOH EX is scared but OTOH she still acts like her sisters slave, a few days ago her sister called her having not spoken to her for 3 weeks and ordered her to drive to her house, pick up her daughter and take her to school, because the other daughter was off sick.

When I take DD out for lunch EX rings me at 11 O'clock to check shes eating because she is concerned I will feed her later than this which she has decided is her lunchtime. Last time my mum and dad came (to a rented appartment nearby) my mum was cooking a meal for us all, and her brother phoned her (lives in our part of the country), she turned the hob off for 10 mins to talk to him and when she went back to cooking EX says its going to be after 11AM now when she eats, I am not happy at all and threatens to leave with DD.

In february when we had the snow, her sister calls her and says she is too scared to go out in the snow, EX has to drive to hers, collect her and her children, take them to school and then bring her back to her place. EX says ok and sets off, they get stuck on a road which was blocked off because of an accident on the way back from the school and EX and DD didn't get back home till 12.30 by which time our daughter was starving hungry - and when I mentioned how she should have put our daughter first instead of rushing to help her sis she shouted at me to get out of her flat, in front of our DD

OP posts:
HelenMumsnet · 15/03/2013 17:34

Hello. We're going to move this to Relationships now, at the OP's request.

bigtreelittletree · 15/03/2013 17:38

I have to say that through telling the history of what has occurred it makes my EX out to be super arsey, the truth is she can be, but she's also a competent mum and she has good friends. Her sister on the other hand has no friends... never has, people don't warm to her and she is a maybe a bit put out about that so turns on the attack...

OP posts:
Xales · 15/03/2013 17:47

If your DD is being denied seeing her father for more than a few minutes a month sometimes deliberately then her mum isn't that good.

I think you need to make this formal, get proper times set that you see your DD. Get finances arranged firmly and then not let her sister dictate that your DD cannot in effect see you sometimes.

If your ex won't agree to try mediation before going legal you have no choice?

bigtreelittletree · 15/03/2013 18:09

The other tricky thing is she's on benefits and I've got my own business. Any legal "battle" will involve her solicitor telling her to apply for this and that order because its all covered by the legal aid.

I am saying this based on threads I've read in fathers forums today... also my friend is a barrister (criminal and immigration not family courts normally) and she said the same last time I asked her about this.

OP posts:
bigtreelittletree · 15/03/2013 18:11

I have one thought - which is that EX is asking me pay 120/month for a nursery starting in June. Can I say only if we have an agreement in place first? Is that a bit manipulative?

OP posts:
cocolocopoco · 15/03/2013 18:29

I don't think you can get an order allowing her to see her grandparents but as far as I know, in formal access arrangements you can do whatever you like with your daughter (as long as it's not against the law/ endangering her safety- and I don't think visiting the grandparents comes under that heading!)

cocolocopoco · 15/03/2013 18:30

Keep contact and money separate- you can't use it as a bargaining tool, it will look bad if it ever goes to court

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