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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Feeling Finished With My Socially Stunted "Friend"......

39 replies

MollyMurphy · 12/03/2013 20:17

I have known this friend for 20 years but if I?m honest we have had very little in common for a long time. At 36 she seems to have made little social progress from when we were in high school - keeping with the whole mopey introverted teenage angst persona?.which has only been getting worse in the last few years IMO.

She and her husband had a son a year ago though and I thought that parenthood might bring her out of her funk shell and that it might finally give us some common ground again.

We've seen her and her husband a few times (always at their house) but overall I'd say she is just as hermit-like as she was before. Still, I just started maternity leave with DS2 and hoped that we could get out a bit together. So I instigated a get together with her this morning ? we arranged to take the kids for a walk. I agreed to come to her place on the other side of town because I know she loathes leaving the house. I jovially cautioned her in advance that a walk with my 2 year old will involve a lot of standing as he explores puddles and pokes this and that with a stick.

So this is how our walk turned out: I pushed a double stroller around with one hand through half melted spring snow (I?m not in the UK) while shepherding my energetic 2 year along??and she walked over half a street ahead with her sleeping child. WTF!? I could have walked with my kids alone in my own neighbourhood.

She did not ask me even ONE question about myself or the kids in 2 hours aside from a cursory ?how are you?? at the start. I felt like a Spanish Inquisitor whizzing questions at her in vain attempts to start a conversation.

She offered me no assistance whatsoever with the kids ? not even to hold my screaming baby while I fumbled to make his bottle with one hand. She didn?t put any of her sons few toys out to share with my toddler. I just gave up at a certain point and I wonder if she even noticed we only spoke to our respective children for the last 40min.

So as it stands parenting only serves to highlight how vastly different we are. I don?t care what her issues are at this point and am tempted to call her out on her constant sullen behaviour. Thank goodness for her son that her husband has more social skills because really, as much as she loves that child, she does nothing but sit around in her spotless house with him.

Don?t know why I?m posting really ? I guess I'm just disappointed want to vent. What my DH and I need is to meet some people we actually enjoy spending time with instead of hanging onto friends we have long outgrown. I can?t be alone in thinking it?s hard to make friends in your 30?s though?

Exasperated.

OP posts:
scurryfunge · 12/03/2013 20:21

If you don't care what issues are then the friendship is already dead. Move on and find someone new.

smearedinfood · 12/03/2013 20:22

Yup i'd be annoyed too! I guess she doesn't realise her poor social skills are making her lonely..

kalidanger · 12/03/2013 20:38

I get freaked out by a friend of mine's parenting. I can see she's sending her DCs into school days like she had, which weren't fantastic in a sort of low-level never-fitting-in way. She's turned out fine but secondary school was crap with stupid shallow stuff that kids pinpoint; wrong hair, wrong clothes, too quiet, too clever. It's all very complicated because if she had a very wonderful life now that's the problem? But 30 years ago it was crap.

I'm trying to say that I think I see where you're coming from. But my friend is wonderful company and we still love each other very much. It does seem you might have come to the end with yours. Or maybe it's OK and you just needed a rant? Smile

MollyMurphy · 12/03/2013 20:50

I am freaked out by her parenting in a similar way I think to what you describe kalidanger but I like her husband a lot and think he will keep things on the rails overall.

Argh! I do care. I don't know why I care...this freindships been in a decline for some time but I can't help but care about someone I've had such a long relationship with for better or worse. She is just blank. That is how I would describe her - blank. I know she has some anxiety issues and presumably some depressive issues for which she has been to counselling over the years but its not improved. I thought being a parent would force her out a bit, get to to meet some new people - see the spice of life so to speak but TBH I just find her joyless. What can one do at a certain point?

OP posts:
cjel · 12/03/2013 21:16

I think there are two things here, either you no longer get anything from this and want to end your friendship, or if you think she is depressed could you help her making little steps to encourage her to become the lovely person she could be,enjoying her life and family.

kalidanger · 12/03/2013 21:24

Is she happy? That's the question really, isn't it. Perhaps worry less about her DC and more about whether she needs more help. On one hand she could get more help herself (more counselling? Anti-ds?) but on the other, you care so perhaps there's something you could do.

MollyMurphy · 12/03/2013 21:47

or if you think she is depressed could you help her making little steps to encourage her to become the lovely person she could be,enjoying her life and family.

This gives me pause for sure.

I don't know that she is currently depressed - so much as she is just so introverted and anti-social that she is fine (if not happy) to just be by herself all the time interspered by time with her DH. This was ongoing before her son was born too becoming more and more obvious to myself and our one mutual friend (we are her only friends) over the past few years. She will come to a dinner party with an excuse every time without fail for why they need to leave early, she rarely reaches out to do anything unless its one of those times when its conveinent to have friends - her birthday for example. She has never been a chatty-Kathy but she has become a horrible conversationalist partly because she has nothing going on, doesn't do anything, see anyone, has no paritcular plans and thus nothing in particular to say. She has never taken care of herself moving from her parents care to her husbands so it feels like she has missed out on a big chunk of adulthood TBH.

I have to question whether this is this is just her personality at this point and if so then how can we really help.

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 12/03/2013 22:29

This sounds very much like a "friend" I met at school, more years ago than I care to think about. She was abused by her parents and never married, and over the years we've all supported, helped and encouraged her in endless ways. Unfortunately she's sunk so far into victimhood there's really nothing more to give, especially as there's nothing coming the other way. Like your friend, she's just "a blank." Nobody helps to get something back, but there's got to be SOME connection or it simply can't work. I guess what I'm saying is that sadly, sometimes you just have to let go :-(

Oopla · 12/03/2013 22:41

Some people just aren't that social. From an introverts pov how do you define social progress? So she's happy just spending time with her DH, had she mentioned to you that she feels stunted or that she wants to get out more? Does she call and chase you up for meet ups?

If she's not calling you then I'd leave it be and concentrate on widening your own circle.

cjel · 12/03/2013 22:46

Yes if shes not depressed just not sociable you are right that she doesn't need help, although she sounds a bit low if she wants to leave an evening out before its even started. perhaps ooplas right, wait for her to chase you.

MollyMurphy · 13/03/2013 02:25

Thanks for your comments. I was so irritated this morning but I have sunk back into "oh see she's always like this" nonchalance. I am going to leave it and wait till she calls me.....her birthday is around the corner so I know I'll hear from her.

I am going to call her on future rude behaviour though and see if she is aware of it, cares or if truly there is no point for me anymore.

OP posts:
toomanyfionas · 13/03/2013 08:02

Ugh I have a "friend" like yours. I would happily be rid of her, but every now and then I feel a pang of compassion and agree to meet up. This involves a minimum 2hrs of listening to her gripes. She never ever asks me anything about myself, is full of bitterness and regrets and in fact has no redeeming features. I don't know why I agree to see her!

dothraki · 13/03/2013 13:40

I had a friend like this. She cut me out - because I didn't approve of her seeing a married man. I had always thought she was depressed and I felt sorry for her. She fell out with every one she knew, family, friends, all her relationships went spectaculary wrong. She was always right - everyone else was always wrong. Her problems were always more important than mine. She had massive rages.

18 months down the line I was on here - and started recognising traits, of narcissism - and it explained so much. If I'd realised this sooner I would have stopped contact then.
There is an old thread "goodness versus niceness" read it - and see if you recognise her. The Stately Homes thread is also very helpful.

QuietNinjaTardis · 13/03/2013 13:48

The blankness sounds like depression. That's how I felt inside when I was depressed. Though I was never outwardly blank. If she is unwell and has been this way for years then maybe she cannot summon up the energy to interact? I dunno if its not depression then she sounds like miserable company and I wouldn't be putting any effort into meeting up with her.

citalobrain · 13/03/2013 14:02

She sounds very depressed to me. Sure she'll be cheered up by being referred to as "socially stunted".

curryeater · 13/03/2013 14:10

Why are you so angry with her?
Pedantic but important point: she doesn't sound "anti-social", as you say, but potentially unsociable. Anti-social is something else (eg spitting is anti-social)

But she might not even be that - maybe she doesn't like you, finds you boring or pushy, doesn't know how to assert herself with you, maybe you make her uncomfortable.

You say you need new friends - but why is that her fault? Just make new friends.

If this post is about you and what you want to do with your maternity leave, then make new friends and don't expect her to hold your baby while you make his bottle up, or walk at the pace that suits your toddler, or push your buggy (what else does the dig about "pushing the buggy one-handed" mean? Wouldn't you have had to do that alone?)

If this post is about her and whether she is happy or not, or a good influence on her children (wtf, am I imaging those hints?), then ask her how she feels, if you can bring yourself to do it in a sympathetic manner.

Spiritedwolf · 13/03/2013 15:12

I find this difficult to respond to.

I suffer from depression and anxiety (including agoraphobia) and maybe at times I appeared like this. If she has issues like mine then she does value your friendship, and doesn't want to be rude but she just finds going out and social situations too stressful to be companionable at the moment. If she has agoraphobia or social phobia etc then she may have spent the entire walk in a state of internal panic which would explain her lack of responiveness.

I understand that she's not much fun to be around right now. Maybe she's just quiet and you're a bad match because of little in common.

You could drop attempts at friendship if you don't feel there's a point anymore, that its a one sided friendship. You could continue to see her occasionally and just accept that right now this is what she's going through and she might not change, and just be there for her when you can spare the time and look for more satisfying friendships with other people who are more fun.

FWIW reading what you've said it comes across rather judgey criticising her as a mother and wife, when you don't necessarily understand why she is the way she is or how difficult what she's going through is. I'd be extremely hurt in her shoes, and its the sort of thing that set me back (because it confirmed my fears that others were judging me, which made me feel more rejected and avoid contact with everyone further).

I think there's a line between being concerned about someone and so offering support and trying to make them be someone they aren't (or aren't ready to be). If you keep showing her you want to fix her then it confirms her self belief that she's broken.

Its so hard because even having been through something like this from the other side, I would find it difficult to tell you where the line is. I've had friends who have been great, supportive and friendly and I eventually did more with them and family who were too pushy and I still feel 'unsafe' around. (though to be fair the family might have been the same people that made me feel so anxious in the first place).

My best friend smokes. I think its bad for her and am concerned for her health. She knows I'd rather she didn't smoke. She says that she wants to give up some day especially when she decides to have children. She can't smoke around me (because I'm asthmatic, was pregnant, now have a baby with me at all times). But we don't talk about smoking every time I see her. I can't give up for her. I understand that giving up smoking is difficult and I empathise with her not just getting on and giving up even though it makes logical and financial sense. I love her to bits even though she does something I ultimately think is wrong for her.

The point is, our friends are human and have problems that we can see from the outside are damaging them, but we can't live their lives for them. We have to be empathetic that problems are more complex than they could appear to an outsider. We can offer support, but too much pressure would be nagging and damage the friendship.

I guess you have to either accept her as she is and that anxiety is a debilitating problem for her right now and let her know that you'll support her if or when she wants to go out more (by accompanying her, suggesting things etc) but give it a rest until she's ready. Or you decide that her problem has gotten in the way of everything that made her a good friend and that you just have to leave her to it.

I realise that Depression and Anxiety can make someone so focused on surviving themselves, that they may not be a good friend to you, of course you have needs of your friends too, I'm not saying you have to martyr yourself to be friends with her, just trying to get across how hard these conditions can be.

kerala · 13/03/2013 15:21

Gosh what hard work she sounds. Friends are supposed to enhance your life. I would concentrate on making new friends OP rather than being driven mad by old "friends" you are only in touch with because of share history.

Have you tried playgroups? We moved to a new area and I went to a few chatted up women with similar aged kids I thought looked compatible some were interested some not. Now we have a group of 5 or 6 families, DC all similar ages and play beautifully, DHs get on and share a hobby, we go out for drinks, for long weekends its great. Took about 3 years since we moved here to develop proper friendships but worth the effort.

ToTeachOrNotToTeach · 13/03/2013 16:13

Wow Kerala that sounds fab! Its hard trying to start from scratch I think.

In the past I think I've been a bit like your friend. Its a vicious circle though -little support and depressed then wanting to 'talk' and get better but what's such a drain on those around you and reinforces the idea you're not ok. If people all drop her she won't be able to get to the place where she isn't a drain.

Its hard.

toomanyfionas · 13/03/2013 18:02

spirited you probably have supportive friends because you have being a friend. This is different to the OP's friend who has always being mopey and unsociable. We do not know if she suffers depression or anxiety, all we know is that she brings nothing positive to the friendship.

Seabean · 13/03/2013 20:09

it's difficult. you sound like you want to do the right thing by your old friend, but God i don't think i could stand it. i know a few 'friends' who just let the conversation go on around them. i end up exhausted because if i don't speak then they wont. when i do meet em, i start up the convo then wait for them to talk back. it's uncomfortable at first, but i relish it now! i actually enjoy the awkward silence. They do eventually warm up. still exhausting tho. cba am afraid. nearly 50. only meet up with friends i feel relaxed with. marvellous.

Oopla · 13/03/2013 20:31

Just to second what spirited said. It's really hard to hold a convo when your brain is going "raaaaaaaaah"

curryeater · 14/03/2013 09:35

I think the OP is feeling really unnecessarily superior to her friend who, basically, has a completely different modus operandi and for all we know is really annoyed about being expected to leap into this role of present-friend-and-supportive-handmaid now the OP is on maternity leave. OP doesn't want to push her own buggy, make her own bottles, go for a walk without someone to talk to. Fine, she should find like-minded people, and I hope they will support each other rather than it turning out to be one of those cases where people who think they are "sociable" are actually just "people who don't like doing anything on their own without a loyal supporter holding things, listening and nodding". But for all we know the OP's friend thinks the OP has terrible social skills because she expects everyone to walk at the pace of a 2-year old, wants to talk about herself all the time and doesn't seem able to do the physically necessary things relating to going out with her own two children. But does the OP's friend recognise it's a different modus operandi, or is she bitching somewhere and feeling superior to the OP? I think probably the former because people like her are usually more thoughtful.

green57313 · 14/03/2013 12:48

She doesn't want to talk to you, is not interested in you or your kids, doesn't think you are worth the effort of leaving her house. While you keep visiting her, invite her for a walk and barrage her with questions..
Why??...Surely there are other people that you are more compatable with.

MollyMurphy · 14/03/2013 18:36

You seem to be taking my post very personally curryeater - your certainly making sweeping statements about me and the friend in question without knowing either of us. I was irritated and I posted to vent. End of.

I dont expect anyone to push my stroller or feed my children but being helpful and conversational and hanging out as freinds when that was the purpose of the visit - yeup I amazingly do. As for the possibility that she doesn't like me....well if that is the case than its time to put both of us out of our misery.

I agree - we are very different and I should put my energies elsewhere.

OP posts: