How can I help my brother?

[Notsogoodhousekeeping]

My brother moved home with our parents a few years ago, I suspect having had some sort of breakdown. Since then he hasn't worked at all and spends most of his days in his room. He briefly went on to antidepressants but came off them. He's had counselling and CBT but that has now finished (not sure why). My parents have tried to talk to him about getting a job but my dad says that my brother becomes tearful and defensive whenever the subject is broached. Apparently he talked to the doctor about going back on to antidepressants but refused when the doctor said that as he's already had one course, he'd have to go back on them for a minimum of two years.

He has done some volunteering with me (all initiated by the CBT counsellor) and coped very well with meeting new people and with the general workload, but as soon as he has to do anything for himself he stalls. My mum is not well and my dad also suffers from depression, and so they have not been as proactive as they might have been - I think my dad also blames himself for the way my brother is. My brother can be quite rude about my parents and I end up biting my tongue, but it is getting to the point where I feel he's actually taking the piss now. He pays no rent, contributes nothing towards bills and rarely asks if he can help around the house. My parents look to me to sort it all out but I don't even know where to start. I would happily accompany him to the doctor if he needs support, I would have him come and volunteer with me again, but imho at the moment he shows no willingness or desire to change his behaviour (which could be down to depression? I've no idea).

He is otherwise OK - looks after himself, takes exercise, sees friends from time to time. But he seems to be completely stuck in a rut and I can see this going on for years at this rate. It is driving my parents mad and not helping their relationship much as they worry about him constantly. But I come from one of those families that doesn't talk to each other so everyone's trying to second-guess each other. I am away this week but when I see them all next I would like to take my brother aside and speak to him about what's going on, but I don't even know where to start or how to approach it. Any advice would be very welcome.

I should add: imho he needs to go back on the antidepressants, as that might at least help him to get his head above water, as it were.

It sounds to me as if you are taking far too much responsibility here. Your parents are the ones putting up with him. If they want to basically enable him to give up on life, they are doing the right thing. (I speak as a sufferer of long term mental illness myself). I don't think this is your battle to fight, you've already tried. Horrible though it must be I think you have to let your parents and brother sort this out for themselves. Your brother sounds both depressed and selfish- not an unusual combination but a particularly hard one to crack.

I'm not being completely fair - my parents have attempted many times to talk to him but he gets tearful or angry and they leave it at that, it never goes any further. I think they are worried he may harm himself or something.

Depressed and selfish sounds pretty much bang on. What a mess.

The only thing you could do is talk to him and find out what's going on. If you do that though you'll have to go in with a different attitude - currently you are assuming that he can change his behaviour and refuses to, and that he's "taking the piss" - if you give the impression that that's how you feel then he (understandably) won't want to talk to you. Only once you have an honest, non-judgemental conversation with him will you find out if there is actually anything you can do.

I actually understand your brother. I've become rather dependent and whiney myself when depressed (although I never moved back with my parents, that would have been too much for me!) Also once you have 'given up' it becomes harder and harder to get back up.

The thing is that kindness and enabling are totally different things. If your brother did harm himself it sure would not be their fault (has he got a history of that btw?)

My parents look to me to sort it all

As your brother is not living in your home, you have no power or authority whatsoever to 'sort' it.

If your parents are willing to tolerate their adult son taking the piss being a drain on their resources, there's absolutely nothing you can do to bring about any change either to their lack of assertiveness or your db's failure to address his idleness problems.

Unless your dps get their act together and kick their ds's lazy arse out of their home, all you can do is continue to listen to their complaints about him and drive yourself nuts in the process.

I suggest you make it clear to your dps that until they start the ball rolling by giving your db notice to quit and sticking to it, you don't want to hear any more about his failings.

FWIW, it seems to me that your db isn't so much 'stuck in a rut' as having stuck himself in a cosy billet where he doesn't have to lift a finger and only has to turn on the tears to continue living the life of Riley. If only we all had it so easy...

You cannot though help or rescue anyone who ultimately does not want to be rescued and or saved. They are all adults here and on some level your mother is probably quite happy to have her son at home. They've created this problem too as well as your brother. My BIL is in not too dissimilar situation with regards to his parents; he detests the pair of them and has not worked for years.

They have enabled him and continue to do so; its between them and him really. Its not your battle to fight.

He looks after himself, takes exercise, sees friends from time to time

None of the above indicates a man who is incapacitated by depression or any other ailment.

Izzy, I disagree. A lot of people seem to think that in order to be depressed you have to be in bed crying all the time. In fact, plenty of people function quite well while being totally depressed. I completed a PGCE including an extremely stressful practical placement while being suicidal and so depressed I didn't sleep at all. To look at me on placement I seemed like a competent, together teacher - I got an A for the placement - but as I lay awake at night I was making plans on how to kill myself. You can't assume from someone's behaviour that they are not depressed.

Hmm I am between you and Izzy, Cailin.

It really depends on the person's symptomatology whether they put on a good 'front' or not. And the more severe the disturbance, sometimes the more severe and sudden the deterioration.

Tbh though that has no bearing on whether your parents are helping by allowing your brother to live like a teenager. They are quite clearly not.

Anecdotally (and I may be wrong here or being 'sexist') but why is it always depressed MEN who end up living at home? I don't know of one woman who did this, depressed or not but at least 4 men. At least two of whom were still there 20/30 years later :-0

Thing is, goddess, it doesn't make sense to assume. Unless the OP actually talks to her DB honestly she is just guessing.

True Cailin. Assuming he will acknowledge the facts.

Thank you for your responses everyone. I too am in between Izzy and Cailin and that's why I want to talk to him. I'd rather he led the conversation because then I will just be listening - I don't want to judge if I can help it! He is a nice bloke but this whole arrangement is doing my head in, to the point that I didn't want to join them for Christmas.

He has always been quiet and reserved and before all this happened he asked me to meet up with him to talk - at which point he started crying and admitted he'd been diagnosed with depression. A lot of it stems from our teenager years when my dad had an affair and then made several suicide attempts. I've always been one to talk with my friends but my brother just shut down and basically pretended it wasn't happening.

I have told them several times that he needs to go to the doctor's and get signed off sick - then he could at least sign on and get help with getting back into work. I've said they need to start charging him rent, even if it's just a nominal amount that he then 'earns' by doing chores around the house. Anything to encourage a sense of self-worth. He's proved he's entirely capable of working, but why would he when he's got everything on tap at home? Use of a car, his phone topped up, money to see friends or go up to concerts in London?

I probably sound jealous in a way but my parents are very generous - probably too generous - to both of us. But I've always been in work and will do any job to get money coming in, which is where I get frustrated with my brother - he claims there are no jobs around but there are plenty, he simply won't lower himself to do them. And that's what really irks me, but is it just another excuse?

would he try something like 5htp or st johns wort?

I don't know, Branleuse. I don't know why he's refusing to take antidepressants for a second time but hopefully a talk will illuminate things and at least then we might move forward.

As far as I know there's no self-harming going on.

Unfortunately it has all coincided with my mum developing a very serious illness; she is normally pretty assertive and on top of things but has been completely floored by it, although she is now improving. It has meant that this situation has been allowed to continue for a couple of years when ordinarily I think she might have had the energy to do something about it.