Working with / for a narcissist - just a quick question

[BuiltForComfort]

If you realised that your boss or colleague was a narcissist (and making your working life very difficult with a lot of the behaviours associated with NPD) would you consider that your only real option was to look for a new job?

My dh already has. He left his old job a year ago as he was certain his boss had npd. He says that the most useful thing he learned was that when narcissusts feel threatened they go on the attack.

He was lucky in that he was offered a new job before he left. He's in a much much better employment situation now.

It would be one of them. 'Difficult people' exist everywhere however so you could be exchanging a frying pan for a fire. Is this a very small organisation? Are they the owner or sole manager? In larger organisations difficult people can be cut down to size or you can shift sideways to avoid them. In smaller ones it's less easy.

Yes. It's not worth the stress of dealing with someone like that. I moved, was the best thing I ever did.

Helpful thanks. It's sort of two-fold question. I used to work with one years ago but only recently realised that he was most likely a narcissist. I wish I had known at the time, he was my boss and made my life totally miserable. I left for another job but always felt a bit crap that I didn't manage to fight my corner properly or stand up for myself.

I am now working with (but not for) another one, not as bad as my old boss. This person isn't so much of a problem, but having identified him as NPD has helped greatly in understanding why working with him is harder than it should be. I'm more worried about his colleagues who do work for him.

Oh totally. It was the thing that made me leave the career I loved and move into something completely different. I just couldn't face running into him again in another workplace.

He was a colleague and seemed determined to wreck my career. I later found out he had behaved like this with women he thought would be vulnerable (I had just got back from maternity leave) but hadn't factored in my determination not to let him get away with it. The ensuing explosion engulfed the entire department. It was handled so badly by HR, who were afraid of him, that most of the department left.

What he was doing, for the record, was not just the usual NPD posturing, but some pretty serious sexual harassment, was incompetent, neglected his duty and carrying out what amounted to fraud then trying to blame it all on me when the wheels came off.

Excuse me, OP, but HOW do you diagnose somebody as a 'narcissist' exactly? I see this bandied about on so many threads and, from what I understand, it's not that easy to make a clinical diagnosis. Posters seem to have no problem doing so.

Sorry, not helpful, I know that, it just irks me. Is what ou mean that you're working with/for a person who is wrapped up in themselves, acts superior, is a bit of knob? Those - and more - are traits that many people exhibit and, being picked up on them might make them reconsider - or not. If they're unaware of their flaws they're not going to change.

If you don't get on with your 'boss' or colleague and you can't get past that, finding a new job is probably always the better option.

Fair point Lying. Not a clinical diagnosis obviously, but when you've worked with or for someone who seems hellbent on making your life one big headfuck; who gaslights at every opportunity; who displays contempt and disdain on a regular basis and then suddenly throws you a bone before changing back to their usual self, it's hard not to look at it more than someone being a bit of a nob. MN drew my attention to NPD and there is a lot out there online which makes me happy to at least put these people in that general box. I'm not about to diagnose them to their employers or bandy it around publically but it certainly helps to think about them in this "clinical" way in my own head as it was such a light bulb moment when I put this idea in place.

I've worked with people before who I wasn't that keen on, or thought were up themselves, or needy or over-promoted, bad at communicating or insecure etc. But they nearly always had more good points than bad and I could also identify in myself that we were just opposite types or that perhaps my own behaviour could be modified to meet them halfway. I would also know where I stood with them. I could certainly relate to them as fellow human beings and take into account their strengths and weaknesses when working with them.

With the people referred to in my previous posts, I could bend over backwards to be assertive, eager, helpful, non-confrontational, diligent, rigorous, hard-working, intelligent ... none of it helps. You can never get it right, you are never at ease working with them, you never know where you stand. You can offer feedback, be critical, ask for help from others (I did this when things were very bad with my boss but it was like pinning jelly to a wall. Describing what he did and how it made me feel was nearly impossible without making myself sound like a whining child) but it makes no difference, they just steam-roller on and on.

To clarify then, I have worked for and with people who seem to me like they fit the bill of being narcissists. Given that I feel this way with good cause, is the only solution to leave my job (hope they leave first)?

Sorry, Built, I've worked for a fair few of them too. They're exhausting. It's horrible to find yourself in a position where you would like your job if only they weren't there. I always felt such relief when they were on leave or out of the office, but the thudding realisation that they'd be back eventually would taint it for me.

I suppose it depends how much you like your job? The realities of finding a new one? The possibilty of frying pan/fire scenarios or perhaps just the realisation that if they are behaving so badly, so unprofessionally, you can take it through the grievance route. Even if you decide ultimately to get another job, a grievance raised will always make people question how bad the situation must have been for you to take that route.

I wish you well, it's NOT easy at all. Run through all the scenarios you can and try to find one that best 'fits' your circumstances. That's all you can do really. I tend not to 'run'... I get painted into a corner and will then fight and stand my ground. I don't know if that's the best thing to do though? My advice would be to determine where your 'line in the sand' is, your 'this far and no further' point - and let them know it. Bullies tend to shy away and there always seems to be bullying somewhere in this, an abuse of power.

Built I could have written your post! I've come across plenty of 'difficult' people in my career and you can generally find some way of dealing with their behaviour and having a sensible, productive working relationship with them but this one person was exactly as you describe. No coping strategies, behaviour or tactics worked with them. Going into work was like a lottery every day, you never knew what mood they were going to be in or how the day would go. Utterly draining. Move jobs ASAP, there's no changing that kind of person.

Re the comment made by BuiltForComfort:-

"With the people referred to in my previous posts, I could bend over backwards to be assertive, eager, helpful, non-confrontational, diligent, rigorous, hard-working, intelligent ... none of it helps. You can never get it right, you are never at ease working with them, you never know where you stand. You can offer feedback, be critical, ask for help from others (I did this when things were very bad with my boss but it was like pinning jelly to a wall. Describing what he did and how it made me feel was nearly impossible without making myself sound like a whining child) but it makes no difference, they just steam-roller on and on"

I would agree with every word of the above having been unfortunate enough to work with a female work colleague who made everyone's lives a complete misery. She was, I also recognised far later on, a narcissist in terms of personality.

Fortunately for me she left the job before I did but working in a small place with her for a couple of years did put me continually in a state of unease. Senior management of course thought she could do no wrong.

This woman was aware of the mess she created but revelled in upsetting people. It was indeed a happy day when she left.

Also many narcissists are never actually clinically assessed also because they see wrong with their behaviours. It is hard not to overemphasise their complete lack of empathy with regards to other people.

Oh My God. I work for one of these. It is truly awful.

Thing is a lot of people love her. She is very good at her job, in that she is very clever and gets the job done. But I have never worked for someone who is so unkind and mean spirited and will find things to criticise particularly when I am doing well.

I am staying put as it is part time and I am awful at finding new jobs. She is also destroying my confidence day by day :(

Dr Robert Hare, an expert on narcissism, has said that you do not need to be diagnosed with full blown narcissism for problems to develop in relationships. It is a spectrum disorder and you just need to be higher than the normal range and only showing some of the signs to be a highly narcissistic person - even if you would not be diagnosed as NPD you would still be a very difficult person to deal with.