Keeping a distance from SIL’s boyfriend

[lizzywig]

I need some impartial advice, some reassurance that we?re doing the right thing (if we are?!) and what other people would do in this situation.

Some back story. DH and SIL had a very sad childhood, their mum in and out of MH hospital from the day after DH was born, she had something called (I think) post natal psychosis followed by electric shock therapy and then diagnosed with bipolar and multiple personality disorder amongst other things. Their father left for another woman and started a new family (I could write a whole other thread on that!). DH and SIL were raised by grandparents during any periods that their mum was in hospital. When DH was about 5 their mum remarried and he shared the responsibility of looking after them with grandparents when their mum was in hospital. She had numerous hospitalised periods but was around to raise them for several years at a time before being readmitted to hospital. SIL spent years self-harming and then when she was 16 she confessed that their SF had been raping her since she was 4yo. SF and MIL split and SIL was admitted to MH hospital when she was 18. Just after she turned 19 MIL was admitted to MH hospital again after she rapidly went downhill. She wasn?t on the proper medication and wasn?t being looked after properly when in hospital and ran away, very sadly she went missing and was found drowned after she fell over (due to her spinabifida she had horrible troubles walking) a stile in a field and into a river.

I?m sure you can imagine the close bond that DH and SIL have, they have spent their lives being each other?s worlds and only having each other. When I came along (6 months before MIL died) I could see their closeness and always did my best to involve SIL so she wouldn?t feel left out or like I?d got in the way of their closeness. We would regularly invite her over to stay for the weekend or to go out for the night or for meals and day trips. It is important to me that I am there for SIL because their mum is no longer there. Her grandparents are still around but they?re elderly and they have already been through so much so she does confide in me a lot. They have Aunts and Uncles but most of them live far away and they?re not that close. They do have some family close by who I have confided in about what I am about to tell you.

SIL is now 23 and is finally having proper counselling everything she has been through. However two years ago she started up her first ever proper relationship with someone who we don?t think is good for her. Officially they don?t live together but I suspect they are, she is in a council flat (when their mum died she?d only just come out of hospital and had nowhere to go) and she is well aware of the rules that if he is contributing then her benefits would be cut (again that?s another thread!).

She has confided me on many occasions that he wouldn?t let her see her friends or family and I have heard her ask for his permission to do these things. He would stay a lot at her flat, eat her food etc and not give her any money. He wouldn?t get a job and would sponge off of her (i.e. the people who pay her benefits), telling her off if he wouldn?t give her money for cigarettes. He now has a job but he has had about 5 different jobs in the last year and can?t seem to settle at anything, more worryingly, why is he leaving? Then one day in hysterics (and asking for a glass of wine) she told me that she woke up in the night and he was trying to have sex with her. We all went to a wedding together in the summer of 2011 and as I was pregnant I was the only sober one, I watched as he drunk more and more and got more aggressive with her telling her off for having a couple of drinks ? it literally was a couple. He went to the football with DH when we first met him and DH who is not the shy and retiring type was shocked when he was trying to encourage the opposition for a fight.

To me these are all VERY bad signs but I know SIL does lie from time to time. Usually she will say one thing to one person and something else to another thinking they don?t talk. However I can?t think that she would make up things about him, after all, wouldn?t she want us to like him? Besides which both DH and I have seen enough for ourselves to feel confident that what she?s saying is true. We feel that having been raped for years she is attracted to the same type of man and are deeply concerned for her. SIL spent a long time asking for advice on how to split up with him but said she was scared he wouldn?t leave her alone, said that she felt she?d need to get the police involved as he has keys to her flat etc. I offered her a place to stay numerous times but she retreated into herself.

When DD was born (and I should add the above has still been going on since then) we started to question whether we wanted him in her life. It?s one thing us putting up with him for SIL?s sake but we need to make sure she?s safe and raised around the right types of people. About 6 months ago we told SIL that we didn?t want him around DD, she was devastated and didn?t understand. It has absolutely pushed them closer together which we were worried would happen. We felt we had to say something as there were several family gatherings coming up which we knew he would attend. We agreed to go to the Christening but made it clear that nothing had changed and that we?d go to the church but not the bit after. As soon as we got to the church SIL brought him over and sat down next to us asking if it was ok to sit with us. I said that we were sorry but that our feelings hadn?t changed, she ran out crying. We felt awful but she had known how we felt as we made it quite clear. She can be very attention seeking and DH wondered if she had done it on purpose to try to make us out as being unreasonable. Since then it hasn?t been discussed, apart from grandparents querying it and us saying that we would talk after Christmas as we didn?t want to ruin anything for them ? this conversation is yet to happen.

The other day SIL phoned asking when it would be ok for her BF to be in DD?s life. She is very young for her age, most likely due to everything she has been through and she doesn?t understand. She was shouting at me down the phone saying we were being unreasonable and couldn?t stop crying. I love her to bits and it was truly heart-breaking (I should add that when she told me about him trying to have sex with her whilst she was sleeping I spent two nights on the phone to the Samaritans as I was so worried, just in case I?m coming across as an unreasonable cold hearted cow ? I care very much). I spoke calmly and tried to explain and kept saying that we have to make sure DD is safe and around the right people. She blurted out that her BF is getting counselling and didn?t understand how that didn?t make a difference and that it should make everything ok. I explained that she had never told us that he was getting counselling and that we couldn?t just flick a switch, we?d need to see that he had actually changed, I also pointed out that just because she says he is doesn?t mean he is and that we can?t just take her word for it when it comes to DD. I?ve caught her out lying before so she knows why I said that.

Well done if you?ve managed to get this far, I can?t believe how much I?ve been bottling up. DH whole heartedly feels the same but truth be told I think he?d rather live in denial because he doesn?t want to upset his sister. After everything they have been through I completely understand this. Both DH and I are taking this very seriously and feel that we will never want him around DD. I think DH envisages that her BF will disappear somewhere and never come back and when SIL phoned the other night she said to me that ?she?s in it for the long haul and would DD be allowed at their wedding one day? ? as far as I know he hasn?t proposed and this is hypothetical but it worries me. I don?t know what DH would do if he thought that life could have this divide forever, I think he would end up a very unhappy man. He?s always been close to his extended family that live locally and they have family gatherings on both sides 5-6 times a year. So if we decide that we don?t want her BF in DD?s life then it?s like we?re turning our back on family traditions for DD which isn?t fair.

I don?t know what to do. I can?t tell you how strongly I feel about this man, he literally repulses me and I have never felt so angry towards someone before. I want to be there for SIL, to support DH and mostly to protect DD. I?m starting to feel like I?m being unreasonable but I can?t tell you how much my gut is saying not to let DD around this man.

Sorry for writing so much ? I?ve tried to edit but I didn?t want to end up drip feeding. What the heck would you do?

What a horribly sad background for your dh.

You have no choice but to protect your dd, IMO. It would be sad to hurt sil's feelings but she sounds to be on a self destructive path. I'd avoid any hypothetical conversations about the future and focus on keeping dd away from him for as long as you feel uncomfortable. You can't guess a time limit for that, it may well always be the case.

I feel sorry for you and your dh that you've been put in such a difficult position.

I am very sorry for all of you, except BF. He is dangerous and bad news.

You are right to protect DD.

Is there any way to try and always frame dialogue with SIL so that it is not about him? He really has her under total control.

Is it possible to talk to a police officer regarding her confidence? I read somewhere that DV could be reported by other people than the victim.

Do check with more experienced posters if this would be constructive. Just a thought.

Thank you both for taking the time to read my essay, I've been thinking about posting for a while but not known where to start.

I think the trouble is, the more you think about something the more you start to question yourself. I am SO aware of what an awfully sad childhood they had and I think because of that I want everything not to be true and so it's easy to question it. I just needed to know that what we feel about him is right and we're not off the mark.

SIL asked how we would know he had changed if we're not around him. She is right - I even said to her I have no idea - because I don't. I just don't feel comfortable to put DD in those surroundings without knowing and I don't believe that for a man who can't commit to one job and does the things he does he's so willingly gone to counselling. Perhaps I'm wrong and he is going but I have no idea whether to know whether it's true or if it is true if it will actually make a difference.

The sad thing is that SIL was really getting her life back on track with counselling and she's started working again, only staff relief and only a few hours a week but it's something for her that she is achieving. I don't think she wants to be on a self destructive path and I don't think she sees the path he is taking her down, she is very naive. I know it's not my 'job' to do anything and I can't help her if she doesn't want to help herself but I feel that with their mum not here I need to do everything in my power to help - BUT I have to put DD first.

You're right Carly it is a hard position to be in...

Frequentflyer - is it DV? She has never said he's hit her and I've not seen any evidence of that. Although I personally feel that everything else is abusive, perhaps emotionally abusive. Now that we have shown our hand though all of her troubles have miraculously disappeared whereas before she would confide in me. So they either have disappeared or she is as you say under his control.

I should have mentioned, there was an episode about 4 months ago where she overdosed on purpose, he was in the other room. The family see him as a saviour as he took her to hospital, we see him as the cause and it doesn't add up, how do you not know that someone is overdosing in the next room? The same thing happened again the following week - why was he not keeping an eye on her? Or was he?

We want DD to have the type of upbringing that I had, full of love and no worries, just lots of happiness. We don't want to expose her to any of this.

lizzy your post is very powerful and the extent to which you feel torn is almost palpable. You have, however, got your priorities exactly right. It's vital to protect your daughter even though it hurts your SIL. I think you are doing this in as kind a way as possible. Hopefully one day your SIL will see the light, but that could take many years and you will probably shed a lot of tears for her along the way. You can only keep on letting her know that you care for her and will be there for her when she is ready to face this. One more thing - you can't save her from this, however much you wish to, so it's important to detach a little and know that she is making her own choices and when she is able, she will protect herself. It's easy to say and hard to do. Good luck to you and your DH x

Fab post, kitty biscuits!

It's not an easy situation by any means. I hope your sil is receiving ongoing support from professionals, counselling etc. you can only support within your own limits, and she sounds incredibly lucky to have you.

Thank you kitty, you've made me feel a lot better. I thought i would be flamed for not offering more support after everything she's been through.

I feel more confident after talking to you about this that we are doing the right thing. It's so easy to lose perspective when you're in the middle of it.

You're so welcome. It's very hard to see things clearly when you're in it. Your SIL wont make changes until she is ready, so you can't push her or speed it up. Keep on protecting your daughter, and seek support for yourself when you feel worried for SIL, because, as you will know, it take its toll on you and DH too.

Unfortunately you cannot fix her. You are wise, and as yet, she is not. It may take her a long long time to cotton on to what is considered normal, if ever.

You sound like a very good strong role model for her, but unfortunately it sounds like she is on a path of self destruction and will have to learn the hard way.

Having these worries and concerns for her well being could be extremely energy zapping for you, so be mindful of that and look after yourself and your family.

Sorry. DV is domestic violence, which takes many forms. See link to Women's Aid.
He ticks about all the boxes. Trying to have sex without her consent? Keeping her away from family and friends?

That said, Kitty biscuit is right. Your priority has to be your DD and relationship to DH.

Your DD has to be protected, she is a child.

Your SIL is an adult, and while you wanting to protect her is admirable, in the end she is an adult.

It sounds very hard for you, and you have obviously put a great deal of effort and love into the situation. But, if you have to choose (and it sounds like you might) both you and DH have to put your DD before your SIL.

I agree but isn't it a horrible choice. I spoke to a friend in RL about all of this today and she suggested that as a compromise and to see if he is changing that we suggested meeting up one day in the summer without DD and see how it goes. She suggested it would show we are willing to make the effort and see if things have changed but not put DD in his presence. I thought I might wait until she raised this all again so it could been seen as a compromise rather than us suggesting it now and her thinking everything is ok. She is very young for her age and I simply think she doesn't understand. What do you think?

Whether she's on a path to self destruct, I don't know. I think I'm a fairly good judge of character and good at reading situations. In the last couple of months she's voluntarily stepped up the amount of counselling she attends and is getting on well at work. She may not sound much to you but she's come an awfully long way from the person she was when we visited her in hospital a few years ago.

The reason I can't help but question myself is because she's done a complete 180. One moment everything is awful and she's scared to leave and then as soon as we say something everything is hunky dory. This leads me to believe that we have either pushed them closer together, he has changed or she lied about everything. I don't think it's the latter because as I said we saw things for ourselves - but since we said how we felt he's been as good as gold.

If someone else was writing this thread I would see all the classic signs and think "this is what people like that do". It is very hard to get perspective when you're in the middle of it and to trust yourself so I really appreciate everything you have to say.

Thanks for the link to women's aid.