bad parents but not bad in-laws?

[unclefluffy]

Bit long - sorry. Any advice on how I can help/protect my DH? I've been with him since we were at school so I know his parents well and have been used to popping in and out of their house and being part of the family. I get on with them a lot better than he does. I see their faults, but I don't have the emotional engagement with those faults that he does.

Whenever they visit (and it has to be overnight, because we are now some distance away) he is tense and miserable. If we go to their home he hides out in the kitchen and tries to talk only to his brother/nephews. It's been like this for nearly 20 years.

He is absolutely right when he describes them as selfish, obtuse and emotionally stunted. They make no attempt to understand him, they dismiss his tastes and preferences and persist in believing that he is someone he isn't - no matter how many times he tries to explain. Although they are also selfish, obtuse and emotionally stunted around me, I don't feel any particular way about it - they aren't my parents. I am, however, deeply irritated by the way they treat our children as objects - as if they exist to serve the desires of their grandparents and do not have wills of their own. It helps me to see a little of what DH must have gone through as a child. Still, they have always been welcoming to me, and I appreciate their kindnesses.

We invite them over as little as possible because it upsets DH so much. The trouble is, all our family live in the same town - except us. So when we go back to visit, we end up having to see everyone. There's limited chance to reduce contact - we only see them four times a year and never stay under their roof.

Has anyone been in my DH's situation and could give me some advice on how best to help him? I feel capable of protecting my children (I don't encourage them to hug their GPs, and I wouldn't allow them to stay there without us, for example) but I worry that I'm not helping DH. It's only since we had our own children that I have realised just how peculiar their attitude to him is.

Will he go to counselling? Firstly to give him a chance to talk through his childhood - it is very hard to see your childhood as anything other than "normal" and "your own fault", and it helps a lot to have a complete stranger agree with you that it was not normal and not your fault. And to be listened to and not put down (by someone other than your spouse, who might conceivably be humouring you!). And secondly to help him to work out what he wants from his relationship with his parents.

I am very much in your dh's situation. His parents sound very very familiar! I used to get very stressed and anxious when I knew a visit was looming.

A turning point came when I was very ill in hospital for some months and they made no effort at all to give any emotional or practical support - they timed their visits to suit their tv watching, demanded that they get to view see our children (at really difficult times for us). The day after I got out of ICU they sat with their backs to me in my hospital wheelchair and watched snooker for most of their visit. After that I stopped feeling so guilty about not seeing them very often, cut the visits right down, refused to stay long enough to eat meals with them etc.

I exploded at my parents a couple of years ago, they went off in a huff and we all realised how lovely it was not to see them, and haven't seen them since.

You don't actually have to visit them, do you? You could be just too busy on a visit to their town. Or you could arrange to meet with them at a zoo/museum at the same time as other family.

If this goes back so many years I would (a) cut back on visits and (b) find some plausible excuse for DH not to accompany you on duty social calls, let the DCs see their GPs with you a couple of times a year if that. Safety in numbers so if your DH is roped into some family event, make sure there are plenty of others to take the flak.

Thanks, Donkeys. You know, that's just what we do do (IYSWIM). I take the kids to our old home town more often than we go together. I do the duty visits (and think of them that way). I do wish that I didn't have to do 'his' duty visits as well as my own, but I vastly prefer doing it alone to doing it with him.

Bertha no, I don't think he would consider counselling. I really hope DH doesn't worry that I might just be humouring him - but for many years I suppose I was, rather... On my solo duty visits I have tried to get them to meet us at their local stately home or zoo, but they always seem very confused by my suggestions: "Why would we want to do that when you can come here?" They are not in the best of health and use it as an excuse, but they do have genuine physical and mental health problems which make getting out, especially to new places, a trial for them. If they were easy and pleasant I would always suggest going to them, just to save them discomfort. Still, it would be my preferred solution for when the kids and I see them alone. When DH is with us, though, his coping strategies operate best in their home - they have many rooms into which he can disappear and many TVs he can pretend to be watching!

I'm not sure we're ready to be 'too busy' to see them when we come to town. Well, maybe DH is, actually, but we are both nervous about the guilt-trip which will ensue. I should probably ask him again next time this arises...

What's the brothers relationship like with your in-laws?

Oh, I wasn't saying you were humouring him, more that, if you're grown up with those kind of parents it is hard to accept that your own emotions are valid. My default response to other people is "I'm wrong, I'm silly, they think I'm an idiot" because that was what I lived with for the first 18 years of my life, and that just doesn't go away. I know people I love now aren't thinking that really, but I know that in my head, and my gut reaction is coming from somewhere else!

OK, not counselling. Read a book? www.amazon.co.uk/Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Legacy-Reclaiming/dp/0553814826 Or a website - www.lightshouse.org/index.html#axzz2LXjFGE00

Overcoming the guilt is a good place to start, realising that their behaviour isn't on, that you can't change them, and you don't owe them anything.

How old are your children? Can you use them as an excuse - it's too boring to go and sit in the ILs house so you need to meet at the stately home so the children can run around? Or you've promised the trip to the zoo and don't have time to do that as well as come and sit in the ILs house?

But actually I think its better to work on the guilt-thing. Then the answer to "well you can come here" is "yes but we don't want to". Which is perfectly fine to say, once you realise that you are allowed to want/not want things just as much as they are. It sounds like it might always be you, doing things to please them? How often do they put themselves out to please you?

Smells - better. Being younger he essentially missed some of the worst spells of their dad's behaviour. I wouldn't describe DBIL and FIL as close, but they rub along OK and can chat for hours while watching TV. I think DBIL thinks that DH and their dad are too similar to get along. DH finds that thought very upsetting. He desperately wants to be different to his dad and also his brother's take on things ignores all the water that's gone under the bridge and all the things PIL have ever done or said that have hurt DH.

Bertha - I think he wouldn't read a book because he feels quite strongly that this is their problem and he shouldn't have to do anything about it. Makes sense on many levels, but doesn't really help him! I agree that the guilt thing is where we need work. I feel it - maybe even more than he does. I might be able to say "I'd prefer...". Maybe. But I'm a ways off saying "We don't want to". Yep. Definitely needs work.