need some oobjective advice about a lost friendship

[beatlegirl]

Apologies in advance, this may be long.

I had a friend for over 15 years. We were very close, always there for each other for good times and bad.

We have no fallen out quite spectacularly. It was mainly due to a new relationship she got into. I didnt think the new man was treating her as she deserved. I tried to follow all the 'rules' and keep my mouth shut but one day she was upset bout something he'd said and I let rip. In doing so I criticised her parenting. This, I think is the part she found unforgivable.

We talked after that, but things weren't the same. We needed some time apart really. Unfortunately we didn't get it because I had a bereavement, and she came round.

Over the course of a few days she let me down (in my eyes) and I sent her a message saying that if she was only keeping in touch out of obligation she shouldn't bother. So she didn't. I was devastated, and sent her a message saying so. She didn't reply.

Well, 6 months have passed since this time and I still don't feel like things are the same without her. It wasn't just us, we were both close to each other's children and I know mine miss hers- and her- immensely.

Now the sensible side of my brain says let it go. If she wanted to continue the friendship she'd have been in touch. But, to be fair, I haven't been in touch with her either.

Also, I don't think we can just apologise and move on. Even if we both want to be friends there are things that need discussing.

So, wise women of the internet- what do I do? Is it worth one last try?

My criticism was pretty much just that- that she was putting her new man's needs before her child.

In terms of support- I gave up several whole weekends to let her cry on my shoulder. I included her new man in everything even though I couldn't stand the way he treated her. I accepted that it wasn't about me, and tried to stand by her regardless. I cancelled my birthday plans to be with her when he'd hurt her yet again.
Once. Once I couldn't hold it in. I was angry for her and acted as though I was angry with her. I was out of order. I did apologise.

How did she let me down when I was grieving? She promised to call but didn't- several times. She promised to come round but didn't. She went out for new bloke's birthday instead of coming round to comfort me. I didn't expect her to cancel her plans, but she could have come round earlier. Or the next day. Or ever again tbh.

I didn't want to include all this because I don't want to make this into a 'slagging her off' thread. I know I didn't behave well.

I wish I could just forget about her, but I can't. This is worse (and longer lasting) than any break-up I've been through.

Can I add that she denied that the relationship was emotionally abusive. She painted him as the best thing to ever happen to her. I could see things differently- you're going to have to take my word for that, as I can't go into too much detail.
But I'm just saying- from her point of view I didn't let rip at her while she was being abused.

I think you want the old friendship back but it has changed. If you rescue it - it probably won't be the same. But it's worth a go. And you can tell her if she isn't up for friendship right now that you will leave the door open for her in case she ever needs it.

It sounds as though her new man has effectively cut her off from her friends. She and her daughter probably need your support more than ever.

I agree that it was wrong to be angry at her but you realise this. It was also wrong however, to expect her support at a time in your relationship when things were not going too well. She was still seething from what you said to her and yet you expect her to pretend nothing had happened and be there for you? You said she had supported you through your bereavement - how?

Did she know the person who died? Did she know how it had affected you? Sometimes friends back away in order to let family take over. That doesn't mean they don't support you. She might have felt that after your row, you didn't really want her around when you felt so vulnerable? She might not have wanted to interfere. Or maybe what you said cut her so deeply that she really had a hard time in offering that support to you?

I would write her a letter. I am assuming that she is still with this man so you need to be careful. Write and tell her how sorry you are. That to see her suffering so much was hurting you too and you exploded that day, but that it was wrong of you to do so.
Tell her how much you miss her and how much you miss her daughter.
Ask if you can wipe the slate clean and start again.

A letter can be mulled over you see. It's your last chance really. If she doesn't answer you really have to move away. She might contact you should things go tits up, which they might well do, but for now you may have to accept that she's being controlled by him and there's not a lot you can do about it.

I also think that your mistake was to expect too much from her after your row. She might have felt the pressure of that expectation was too much. You pressurised her into accepting your friendship as it was when she wasn't ready for that. You say yourself that you both needed time - you didn't give her that time, then you criticised her again for not being there.

You might even feel that she owed you something after all you did for her? Perhaps this is how she is taking it?

I agree that you need to accept the blame. Don't go over old ground and don't criticise her. I think she probably has enough of that from him. He might even be telling her to have nothing more to do with you, have you thought that this might be why she didn't keep appointments? Why she didn't call?

Stop expecting and start accepting.

This is difficult for you but I think involving your self and I would say justifiably so in telling her she was putting his needs over and above her children's meant that you may need to end this friendship there if she was not receptive to that advice. Because how can you continue to be friends with her if that was I fact what was happening. This sounds harsh but there are times when the lives of our friends and loved ones can't be sustained or conflict with our own values and there for may need to end.

I had a similar experience with a friend who was in a physically abusive relationship and received an awful lot of support from my self, her ex partner and social services, however she was pulling the wool over all of our eyes and continuing to peruse this abusive relationship which was beginning to impact on my own and my dds life when she was looking for me to rescue her endlessly. I would take her to the police, she would get a place at a refuge she would leave that place with her children and move back in with him. It was difficult and it was exhausting and as much as I wanted to stick around I just was unable to be the friend who could as it back and watch so I told her frankly and contacted her social worker with my concerns and I had to walk away from the friendship. We had been friends for over 20 years. I think about her and wish I could have resolved our parting but unfortunately that was not possible.

I think basically some times friendships must end and I feel you should resolve this internally your self and don't allow guilt or feelings of what ifs and sentimentality doubt how you have acted and remind your self of why you spoke out and accept the consequences of that and consider if you had not spoken out could you remain friends if her choices where impacting on you and your children.

All good advice here.

There is lots of good advice here Pictish, I know. I'm very grateful for it.

I miss her little girl dearly. My son had a birthday party yesterday, and I had an extra party bag ready, just in case. Does that make me sound crazy? I'm always doing things like that. We were like family to each other, and it's so hard to accept it's all gone.

(No-one knew there was an extra party bag, btw. I'm not that woman)

I don't think either of you have behaved badly. You are both human and under emotional pressure things were said and done that have been regretted. It seems a shame to let what was once a wonderful friendship go on that basis.

What you need to think about is that if you write one more letter of apology and say how much you miss her and would like to rekindle things, you might not get a response not because your friend wants to reject you but because her partner does. If they are still together and he is a controlling, potentially abusive partner (as you seem to think he is), then he will undoubtedly undermine any attempt you make at reviving the friendship. He will not want anyone pointing out to his partner that the way he treats her isn't right and he will see you as a threat.

i agree, write her a letter, tell her how much you miss her and you are really sorry. Say that you were wrong to comment on her relationship and certainly her parenting skills but you are so fond of her that you couldnt bear to see her upset and so fond of her daughter that you were woried that your friends upset would rub off on the little girl but you realise you were wrong You know she would never do anything to negatively affect her daughter, you lost it because you were worried about her but went too far. tell her that you were sorry re the bereavement but things were tough at thhat time and you didn't mean what you said in the text, you were just frustrated as you wanted to see her more. Im not saying you were all in the wrong but just apologise for what you thing you did and maybe she will follow suit. if she doesn't then you have done your best. tell her you really miss her and her daughter that they mean such a lot to you and you would love to get things back on track but understand if she doens't want to. Please let us know what happens and I wish you luck. I lost a friendship recently and I was devastated but my sitauation was different as I now realise how unpleasant my friene really could be and I am now better off without her. I would hate to lose a good one though so give it a go as they dont come along too oftenxxxx

Thanks for all the advice so far. I think I'll sleep on it. Part of me is thinking I'm being a bit pathetic really. If she was a bloke you'd all be telling me to man up and get over it!

What a sad situation. Is she still in the relationship?

Could one option be to get back in touch with a simple "I miss you and your DD, would you like to meet up?" and if you did meet kind of gloss over things? Or simply pop round? You know, all British, pretending nothing much has happened! The friendship may be guarded and not as good as before, but over time things could change and you could see how you feel and how she is.

Also, maybe your criticism was right, and hence especially hurtful. Often here on MN people tell women in abusive relationships that if they stay they are not being a good parent to their DC, your criticism of her was kind of like that in RL. Probably not the ideal approach, the one used by womens' aid and others with special skills in helping people in bad relationships, but understandable from frustrated friends who care.

Oh bless you, I could have written your posts word for word. I was in exactly your situation once, perhaps I still am. We never had a row as such, we just drifted apart after she got a new partner. I personally think he slowly started to isolate her from others and felt threatened by our friendship. She had a lot of previous bad relationships and from the start this new one treated her wonderfully...but there was just something not quite right that I couldn't put my finger on.

Fast forward 6 months and we were no longer in contact despite MANY attempts on my part to maintain contact. It got so bad I almost drove round to her house to check for signs of life, it just wasn't like her.

I wrote to her to tell her how I felt. No response.

I went through mental summersaults for years about this, and no good came of it.

Five years later, still no meaningful contact. She did once ring me to say she was thinking of me and we had a nice little chat, she said she would write to me to explain everything. I got a card a month later saying 'sorry' but no explanation.

I rang her a couple of months later to see how she was and she said she was busy making tea and would ring me back in a bit. That was two years ago.

Last year her DD turned 18, she invited me to the party. I was GOBSMACKED although I had played a significant part in DDs life earlier. In the end, we had a berevement and couldn't go. I rang to explain and we had another nice little brief chat and she thanked me for letting her know I couldn't make it. I sent a nice present for DD and a friendship bracelet for her. That was over a year ago.

I have given up now. It's too painful. Never once during our brief chats did she acknowledge what had happened between us.

I have heard from one of her other close friends that her DP is an alcoholic who keeps her isolated. It makes me so sad but I can't help her and it's not for lack of trying.

She knows where I am if ever she want's me. If she did, I'd be half minded to tell her to go do one, as she hasn't been there for me these past 5 years, but hey, what can you do.

My advice, hard as it sounds, is to let it go. You'll just prolong the heartache for yourself. I was a really good friend to her.

Thankfully I found a new friend who is awesome. However, I do worry that one day she'll disown me too for no reason.

Reading this back I sound slightly nuts, but honestly i'm a really nice, normal, professional person IRL!

Silverclementine, you don't sound nuts, you sound lovely!

At least you know it's your friend's issue, not you, iyswim. How awful for her to have ended up with such a horrid bloke.

Everyone in my RL who knows all this tells me to leave it, btw. Mostly about prolonging the heartache. Some see her as very callous for 'dumping' me within a couple of days of the death of a close family member. But obviously, people close to me are going to take my side, aren't they?

I wish it was that easy, really.

There are no mutual friends, so I can't even see how she is.

I think a good question to ask your self is this although regretful for loosing your friendship are you sorry because you where wrong or are you sorry for the consequences. because if it is the fact your friendship ended that does not mean you where wrong to tell her your concerns.

Mrssham, that's a good question. I guess I'm sorry I hurt her. I could have 'put up and shut up' with the new bloke. She knew my concerns. I didn't need to keep repeating them.
I could have said what I thought a lot more gently. I could have expressed my worry about his attitude towards her DD in a calm manner, face to face, instead of in a ranty phone call where I basically implied she was a shit mother.

Sounds like you tried to though and then your emotions ran high, maybe it would have some how came to head anyway.

I think like others said you should maybe then write to her but I think her OH may intercept and prevent any contact.

do you feel brave enough to phone her?

Hang on a minute. You may have blurted it out but you weren't, imo, suggesting she was a bad mother. She may have been a bad mother by default but the main point you were making - and the main point in all of this - is that you have serious concerns about her new bloke.

I've posted on here before that I was so grateful for the friends who had warned me about my husband. When the spell began to break and I started feeling serious alarm about him, those comments (some said heatedly) were validation that I wasn't going mad, that other people had sensed there was something wrong about him.

Thankfully, I left him - unlike clementine's friend. So sad. But there is nothing you can do when they are so bewitched by these awful partners.

Do you know if there are any other people in their lives? I had a situation very similar to this (though it wasn't an especially close friend, but a good friend) and I said it absolutely straight. I reasoned that she had enough people in her life - and, perhaps more importantly, her childrens' lives - that I could risk alienating her. I often wonder what happened to her but given the same situation I'd do the same again. I've been there and there's no place to pussyfoot around - though you pay a high price in that you invariably lose the friendship. If you are the only one around then you have to keep quiet.

imo she hasn't taken offence because of what you implied about her parenting, but has taken offence at what you clearly said about her partner. She's chosen her partner over you because she is under his spell. That's how it goes with relationships like this and there is very little you can do about it. She hasn't so much rejected you as chosen him. More's the pity.

A very good point there from Springy. To me, it sounds like you've been a very good friend for all the right reasons. Unfortunately though it may be that your friend isn't in the right place to really hear what you've got to say, regardless as to how it's said.