It's hard knowing where to go from here

[firstladyinrome]

I don't necessarily expect anybody to have answers, and I expect this may well be a long post so grab a cup of tea!

There are eighteen months between my brother and I. He is 34, and I am 32. I now don't quite know where to start! We were very much-wanted, very planned children and it took nine years to get us, meaning that our parents were mid-thirties when we were born: normal now but at the time meant they were "older" parents.

I think it's fair to say that our parents didn't enjoy being parents - my mum in particular. It's so hard knowing what it was - sometimes I think my mum must have had PND, other times I think she had some form of mental illness that was never diagnosed. She certainly was very erratic and had a real temper on her.

I think there are two main things that came out of our childhood, the main one was that both my brother and I were, as far as our parents were concerned, inadequate. My mum was the main culprit for this - she would rant on (and I do mean on) about other people's children, how clever they were, how pretty, and how ashamed she was of us as a result. With my brother it was mainly academic progress and he tried to kill himself in his first year of secondary school aged 12 because he hadn't been put in the top sets. I got some of the academic nagging as well but it was mainly appearance related for me - both my parents were obsessed with me getting fat and they restricted my food intake so I was hungry, then I would binge eat whenever I got the opportunity. At school when I was about 11 I had my picture taken for the local paper with some other girls as we were in a little choir, and my dad slammed it in front of me and yelled right in my face, "TELL ME THEIR NAMES." He then chanted their names back at me with "thin" next to it, so it was like "CARLY SMITH - THIN, AMY JONES - THIN," until he got to my name and yelled "FAT!" after it. My mum used to tell me that her friends said I looked fat. I was a bit pudgy at about 10/11 but not fat at all really and I did grow out of it after my periods started, but obviously with that all going on I thought I was massive. I had no confidence and I was bullied at school as well, by boys. I always had girl friends but if there was ever a little spat or quarrel my mum would blame me.

It was really horrible, I am shaking a bit just listing these but some of the stuff I remember is my mum grabbing me by the hair and dragging me through a gym changing room to make me exercise, my dad punching/poking me in the stomach (it felt like a punch but was probably 'just' a hard poke) and telling me to get out and exercise, and when Harry Enfield was on the TV at the time my mum nicknamed me Waynetta Slob.

The other thing is that our parents but again especially our mum just didn't like being parents. The extent to which has only really dawned on me since reading mumsnet but some of the 'aibu' posts in particular really make me think of my mum. We'd get just dumped onto any friend or contemporary going really ... understandably that must have pissed them off and so I remember my parents having very few friends and sometimes (not very often to be fair but still it did happen) she would blame us for this, being such awful children she didn't dare take us anywhere. This made our isolation quite complete in a way. I try not to judge too harshly as it was the 1980s and I know approaches to childcare have changed a lot since but for instance we'd go abroad and my mum and dad would just bask on the beach all day and we'd be free to run in and out of the sea when we were hardly more than toddlers and I would always get lost on the beach at 5/6 years old. I was also taking myself to and from school from being about 7 and coming home to an empty house. Again, I just don't know how 'normal' this is, as it was the 80s not today but still.

My brother and I had a weird relationship growing up, we were either very close because of protecting ourselves from mum & dad or we'd sort of gang up against the other as it was quite unusual for both of us to fall out of favour, so we'd enjoy the other one being the 'bad' one while the other got to be the cossetted one. There was a definite gender divide as well, as I seemed to get on more easily with my dad and my brother with my mum. As teenagers though we did rebel a bit in different ways. My brother went completely off the rails and turned to drugs. I on the other hand (didn't consciously realise it) just became the daughter I knew my mother didn't want which to be fair wasn't hard, but they both still had us very cowed and subdued. My mum chose my A levels for me even though I said I didn't want to do those subjects and I know it might be difficult for some people to understand why a sixteen year old couldn't just say "shut up Mum, I'm doing this," but it was just so knocked into me to obey her every word. My 'rebellion' never went further than getting my hair cut (I was sixteen at the time and until that point my mum used to put hair rollers in my hair every night and I wasn't allowed a different style, I used to get CRUCIFIED for that at school) and she used to buy my clothes for me too, I hated them but I had no other choice and I had to wear them or go naked!

I suppose the problem was socially and in various other ways I was totally inadequate, I looked stupid and had been isolated from my peers and had been bullied. Then when I was 17 and my brother 19 our mum was very suddenly diagnosed with terminal cancer, she had been drinking very heavily for a while then and I think this must have had something to do with it, and she died. My dad, and I was always closer to him even though he is a dick sometimes, fell apart and a very manipulative controlling woman took up with him. He married her and moved to live with her in the Scottish Borders (we live in the midlands) and she made it a 'rule' that my brother and I couldn't visit, to be fair my brother was heavily involved in drugs at this point. They were awful years, we were both at university but with no stability or adult to help or guide us. After graduating I trained as a teacher and I spent a period homeless as I was eligible for no help due to being a student but had no income for the same reason! Very difficult!

Slowly, gradually, my life and to a lesser extent my brother's life has fallen into some kind of order. Socially I learned 'on the job' as it were and I do now have many friends, most of whom know little of my life before I was 18. I own a 3 bedroomed terrace house, so hardly a mansion but it's warm and comfortable. I have a really good job - I am now a head of department at school and am going to shortly be an assistant headteacher. Things have been harder for my brother as his drug abuse gave him a myriad of health problems including epilepsy and Crohn's disease but he has his own place and works for an agency. My dad divorced wife 2, lived with another woman and then married a third time and seems to live wife 3 very much. We're still in touch with him but they have a caravan so don't see loads of him.

I've never been in a relationship - ever. I posted about this the other day but have name changed due to more personal stuff in this post. Neither has my brother. It's not through lack of trying on my part. Obviously, having a boyfriend was out of the question at school/college. At university I gained quite a bit of weight and also had what I now recognise as severe anxiety/depression from my mother dying, from my earlier years and also I was sexually assaulted in the summer between year 13 and university.

I know it sounds really bleak but obviously I've only posted about the shitty stuff, there have been lots of good times as well, mostly after I turned about 27/28 as I came into my own at that age i think. I'm now finally able to genuinely like and value myself but obviously, those early years have left their mark. Plus I am nearly 33.

I realised a good two years ago that meeting a partner would not be easy. I don't have age on my side, my friends are all coupled-up, I am in a female dominated job and when I DO meet a nice bloke - he's married I'm concluded meeting someone isn't going to happen/is unlikely to happen for me and I was fine with that and started to make plans to have a child as a single mother, using donated sperm and I should still be doing this later this year if all goes to plan.

I have to explain that our dad thinks that our childhood was amazing, and it's true we went on loads of days out and holidays and had a big gorgeous farmhouse which did look like something from a fairy-tale. For a long time I thought that I was just remembering the bad stuff and that maybe we were normal but talking to my brother this weekend has made me realise we weren't.

The thing is, I have tried counselling before and lovely as the counsellor was, I got nothing from it, it just felt like raking over old miserable stuff that I've moved on from. I don't know what to do or where to go from here. My brother wants to try therapy and I don't know if I should go with him or if I should just accept things are as they are, and I am happy with my lot and looking forward to the future - surely that's enough?

Sorry for mini-novel :laugh:

xx

I won't comment on your childhood which qualifies as disfunctional and would be disfunctional even in the 19th C never mind the 1980s.

Ignore your father's opinion. It is what you remember that is valid.

Set that aside - try another therapist until you find one you like - you may need to go private to do so but it will be worth it. It might be a good idea to read up on different types of therapies, and you can also go to group therapy workshops, which can help unearth critical childhood issues which you can explore further.
You deserve to have a fulfilling life, so go for it.

Moanranger - thank you.

I really, really liked my counsellor. She was lovely (and I did go private.) It was the actual counselling that did nothing for me if you see what I mean. So I'm not sure if I should just accept that bad stuff happened but I'm fine now and move on to the future, or if I should try to 'heal' - I'm tempted towards the former to be honest?

Counselling helps if you have a specific issue that is troubling you, maybe the lack of relationships, for example, or if you consistently choose abusive/alcoholic partners. Then you can explore what might have happened in the past which is affecting the present. I would not think going in with a general "I had a terrible childhood and I need to process it/heal" approach is necessarily going to work.

If you don't think you will get anything out of it, then leave it, but I have found it very helpful myself ( and I had a difficult early family life, tho different from yours.) Good luck.

Thanks :) I suppose maybe lack of relationships but to be honest I think a lot of it is just I left that too late and I don't think I'd feel comfortable in a relationship now. I hope my brother gets something from it though.

OP, I'd suggest that if you are contemplating bringing a child into this world alone you need to think about a string extended network. Your brother may be part of that and if therapy helps him then perhaps it is something you should consider doing together for that reason.

Before I met my husband I dated someone who had had a somewhat more abused childhood than yourself (based on what you've disclosed here) and was only, in his thirties (I was younger), starting to form real adult relationships.

The idea of a damaged single person who hasn't yet made that step creating a new life with someone the baby won't even have contact with is really worrying.

None of us are perfect, or have perfect backgrounds, but there may be some value in acknowledging, including during therapy, yours and drawing some kind of line under it. I'd certainly suggest that you try forming adult 121 relationships before putting yourself in the position of lone parenting.

You may find, as my ex did (and still does), that your 'relationship age' is somewhat less than your physical age and, initially anyway, your have more in common with younger men.

There are plenty of non-work (hobbies, clubs, pubs, parties, internet...) ways of meeting people and in a profession like yours keeping work and play separate may be a very positive thing.

Good luck

What a rough childhood, an ordeal for both of you and it sounds like you are doing really well despite it. It seems that there are a few separate strands which to me raise the question of what you want to get from entering into counselling/therapy. You realise that you are probably carrying issues that need dealing with, but don't really want to do counselling now - that's fine, do it when you're ready. As moon says, important to look into different types of counselling and therapy as there are some very different processes out there - just because you liked the one you saw, perhaps her methodology wasn't right for you.
Your brother may be behind you in terms of coming to terms with your childhood and growing up emotionally because being an addict stunts emotional development, he probably won't have processed and moved on in the same way that you have. It may be that as part of his therapy you could do a few joint sessions, that may be helpful for him and also for you. Everyone has their own memories (as your father proves with his rose tinted version) but it could be helpful for you and your brother to hear each others in a professional setting. But will also be painful.

The issue that is uppermost in your mind is finding a partner/having a baby - are you considering counselling because you think that if you deal with your 'baggage' then you might be more open/able to enter in to a long term relationship and also be a good parent? Nothing wrong with that, just asking the question? But therapy is a long term thing, and it is not recommended by some that you start/do it while pregnant

I don't know you, obviously, and am not a professional, but from reading your story I would be inclined to suggest that you be supportive of your brother in his process, get on with your own life - it sounds like you are a strong independent woman who is doing well in career and life. Do some reading, see how you feel, and when the time comes go talk to someone when you are ready.
Big hugs and good luck!

Ginger - I'm not tearing into having a baby without any thought, I do have an extended network of friends. I don't have any family to speak of, my brother is too poorly to be much support to me and as I've explained I don't see my dad much. It's never really struck me as a reason not to have a child.

I do see what you are saying but you're assuming a younger man would a) be interested in me and b) would want to have a child with me: I'm not sure either of these are true.

Bumper, thank you too - I suppose I'm considering counselling because whenever I share my childhood that's the first thing that is suggested. I don't think I'm capable of a relationship to be honest for the reasons outlined above and I feel OK in myself - fine, really :)

firstladyinrome I don't think that not having a family network is a reason not to. Just that it will be a lot harder for both you and the child. A strong friendship network will help though.

You're second comment is incredibly sad. You're a successful woman with an advancing career and her own property and seem to have some confidence in that. You deserve to build a similar level of confidence in your own attractiveness and appeal to the opposite sex. The fact that your dad didn't fancy you as a pre-teen (a good thing!) and called you horrible names (a very bad thing!) won't have helped. But you now have your own life and the opportunity to build your own self-image.

As it happens I work in a traditionally male-dominated environment where plenty of guys commit most of their twenties to career advancement and end up with younger partners in their 30s ad 40s. As there get to be more women in the field plenty of them are doing it to... and there are younger men out there making it happen for them.

You don't have to love yourself and have confidence in your ability to develop normal relationships before parenting. But I'd have thought it would make it easier, particularly when watching your own children build their self-images and first tentative relationships. If you go for the any kind of counselling then perhaps focus on that.

Take care

Thanks Ginger - I didn't necessarily mean that comment as a put-down, more matter of factly. Most men I meet are married, and a younger man would, I imagine, understandably want a woman his age and possibly to wait a while before settling down and having children.

I'm not sure why you've included that comment about my dad not fancying me to be honest I have probably misread something but that seems very strange. Both parents but more particularly my mum called me names. Your final sentence in that paragraph is also rather misleading as I thought I'd explained quite well that I do have my own life and my own self image - it is just a life that a partner isn't a part of.

I now, at last, mostly like who I am and feel happy with who I am. But that isn't enough to attract a man :) And in the absence of a man I would rather be single and a parent, than just single.

It's not compulsory to have a relationship and not having one might make you unusual but it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you.

I think it's important to realise that before you go any further with anything.

In the past economic necessity has forced a majority of people into relationships. Now that women can achieve economic independence it's no coincidence that more and more of them are choosing to live life as single women - whether childless or as mothers.

I don't think you're that unusual TBH though. Many people don't have serious relationships until they are in their mid-30s for various reasons. This is almost considered normal if the person concerned is male - concentrating on career, playing the field, etc. The trouble is, when you get past your mid-30s, men find it much easier to find available women than the other way round, partly because it's still very much a cultural norm for men to date women younger than they are.

Also, not being able to find someone you like enough to have a relationship with is just as likely to be indicative of the fact that you have healthily high standards rather than because you are scarred in some way. There are lots and lots of lovely men out there, but most of the decent ones are already paired up by the the time a mid-30s single woman starts looking for one. That isn't to say that all single men are twats, because there are those who are going through divorce/widowed/have never met the right woman/wanted to be single til now or whatever, but sadly, most single men in this age bracket are single for a reason. IMO it is always better to live on your own than with the wrong person.

So I'd say unless you feel counselling has something to offer you, stop seeing yourself as the problem and start recognising that society has some majorly fucked up ideas about relationships, women and parenthood. Ultimately, if you have a strong support network, have a good job and financial security, you want to be a mother and feel you offer a stable loving home and a good upbringing as a single mother - you've probably got a head start over many of the people having children in relationships and you should go for it.

Thanks Dahlen, that's very reassuring. For all the dire warnings about how hard it is, I'm sure it's easier than divorce/remarriage would be - I'm happy with it.

Ah - the Dad thing was probably a bit too flippant - it was the x-thin, y-thin, you-fat thing I was remembering from your first post.

Good luck with whatever you end up doing. Plenty of people feel it is difficult attracting people but having confidence that you can does actually usually help! Seriously - just try smiling at the next 10 guys you see on the bus/in a bar/at a parent's evening that you fancy. Not all will smile back, but some will. And you will feel hot... making it easier the next time and so on!

Ginger, it was a little flippant - I'm not offended, exactly, and I realise people have worse problems but all the same it took quite a lot from me writing it all out and your posts are coming across like none of it was remotely important.

My dad yelling "X - THIN, Y - THIN" was when I and the other girls were 11. My dad does not fancy 11 year olds I can assure you.

I remember your other post, I think. I remember it because you sound so lovely

I had a great childhood, in the main. Lots of fun and messing about and shouting and laughing but I look back and I'm just not sure my patents did the best they could have. Nothing bad happened but I'm not positive it was the best. And for some reason I've never wanted children and I secretly know that it's because I don't have confidence that I know how to be the best parent myself.

This is a stark and probably cruel question and I'm sorry but are you positive you know how? This is an angle that you could take to counselling.

X

Kaki - it's an honest question and if the answer wasn't in the affirmative, I wouldn't be planning what I am :) I understand why you asked though! I have wobbles and I have doubts but yes, I know how not to do it, at least!

I have decided however to attend some counselling sessions, not because I think I'll change my mind, but to confirm in mind I'm doing the right thing.

Just wanted to say it sounds like you've done really well in life so far with the shitty hand dealt to you early on.
I had a pretty crap childhood although different reasons to you. I've never had therapy but I do have a lot of amazing strong friends and always have done. I'm not knocking therapy as many friends swear by it but I do think sometimes you can work through everything yourself.
You are only 33. You have time to do all the things you want. I wouldnt discount a relationship at all. I was older when I met my H. We are now separated but I have two amazing DC. Its obviously not ideal being a lone parent but if you have a cast iron support group then it's totally doable. I don't have family either. It makes it harder but we get by just fine. Sorry for typos am on phone with baby in other arm. Good luck. I hope you find everything you're looking for.

OP You sound very measured and insightful. Unlike Ginger, whose advice was ill-considered, uncompassionate and reads like a hastily assorted smattering of introductions to self-help best-sellers. Ignore it.

I don't know about going into therapy at this point. Being pregnant is such a vulnerable time and it might help, as you say, to spend that period looking forward. And it would be nice to look back on as a time that 'belonged' to you, rather than being an extension of your parents' difficult legacy. That said, therapy with a positive slant might be a life-giving thing to do, especially if it's going to build connections with your brother.

You sound like you've had to re-parent yourself, making sense of all that's happened and forming a new identity. Hopefully that will give you a head start in being a parent to your own child. Perhaps that might be something positive that therapy now could focus on?

Just a thought - if you have involvement in the work that your brother is doing in therapy now, could there be a problem when a new baby calls for all your emotional/physical energy and time? That might be hard for him.

I wouldn't assume therapy will never have further use for you. It's surprising the way things resurface, especially when dealing with your own child's experiences.

Thank you 2am and cooper :)

I think re-parenting myself is a good way of looking at it, in fact - I've made mistakes, but I've also made some firm choices about who I want to be and why.

Having a baby will be I am sure very difficult but so worth it as well. With that in mind, I will be starting trying later this year so I still have a few months to enable me to save. Also, by timing things this way it will be less of a bind for my employers: I realise that I have to do what's right for me, not work but at the same time I want things to be as straightforward as possible when I'm on leave (would want to take the full twelve months, you see.)

The earliest I'll be having a child will be June 2014 and to be honest it probably won't be for several months after that as natural insemination has quite a low hit rate. Even if I am successful first try, I'll be 34 when I have my first baby and realistically I'll probably be 35.

I think I may try counselling to help me prepare for my baby rather than to dwell on the past.

Thank you for kind thoughts and for letting me ramble. For years, I've had to convince myself things weren't bad and I had a happy childhood and I didn't. I was treated badly. Acknowledging that is important for me.

Dahlen is spot on, you don't need to be in a relationship, and given everything you have been through, you sound pretty sorted and have done well for yourself.

I think the idea of counselling to talk about and prepare for the baby is a good idea.

And for what it is worth, as I extricate myself from my second failed marriage, you are absolutely better to do this alone than with the wrong man. Being a lone parent is hard, but being in a miserable marriage is harder. You know that already, it took me two marriages to work it out!

Seriously, all the best with your plans. My childhood was abusive, it is not simple to deal with. I hope you get a chance to be a good parent.

Loads of luck and best wishes OP