Seeing red flags where they don't exist?

[Donoghueandstevenson]

I have been seeing someone new for about 6 months. We get on really well and things are developing. We are doing all the 'proper relationship' stuff, meeting childhood friends, parents etc. and I think he is pretty keen and it's nice.

In my last relationship but one, my partner had sex with me after I had said no and in my last relationship, he had sex with me when I really wasn't sure about it but 'froze' and didn't actually say no. I think it was pretty obvious I wasn't into it, but I didn't actually say no so it wasn't rape but I felt that I couldn't say no. He later told me that he knew I wasn't into it but that it was 'the most erotic experience of his life' and didn't show any remorse even when I told him it bothered me.

Maybe it's just bad luck that I had these two relationships in a row, but I feel like there is something wrong with me and I draw men like this to me. Either that, or that it's what all men are secretly like, and they are all nice at first and then turn on you (I know logically that this isn't true, before anyone jumps on me).

With my new partner, there are no red flags that I can honestly point out - he is considerate, funny, his friends are nice people, we have good conversations, he's very polite to everyone, he's not controlling etc. But I'm just waiting for the 'bad side' to come out. It's as if I know it's there and it's only a matter of time. I keep seeing controlling behaviour when it isn't there, like when he kissed me once (just a peck on the lips, a normal kiss) in front of some people we knew I felt he was doing it to assert some kind of ownership. Completely over the top reaction. When we'd been seeing each other about a month, he suggested us having dinner with my friends instead of by ourselves and I was furious, trying to read some ulterior motive into it, convinced it was some tactic (he just wanted to meet my friends). He's a very interesting, popular person and I can't help thinking that this in itself is a red flag, having an outgoing personality.

I have had counselling, and as a result I know I'm being hypersensitive. But I'm worried that I keep seeing the worst in him when the poor man hasn't done anything wrong. I haven't revealed any of my thoughts to him about this, he would probably think I'm mad. I have even thought about ending it over issues like the above, but think if I did that I would be wasting a potentially great relationship

I think I'm just a bit scared of men. Does anyone have any advice?

You're familiar with the expression 'once bitten, twice shy'... and your wariness and caution is a fully normal and wholly sensible reaction to having escaped from two abusive relationships on the trot.

I don't know how much time went by after the last abusive relationship and before you embarked on the current one but it could be that, if you are so anxious, you should step out of dating for a time and work on re-establishing your confidence, self-esteem and having a period of 'recalibration'. Work out what you want. Does your current partner know about your bad experiences? Have you explained that you need plenty of personal space and don't like being steamrollered into decisions (like having dinner with friends)? What is most important in your life is you... not someone else. You are entitled to make demands.

Above all trust your judgement... if you are getting bad feelings about someone do not ignore it. Even if you are potentially wasting a great relationship, it is better to feel in control and be alone than to think that you have to tag along behind someone else just for the sake of having a boyfriend.

Perhaps you are just not ready to be dating yet. However lovely he is, if you aren't ready it won't work.

Take it really slowly. At your own pace.

Have you told him about your previous partners? If so how did he react?

Don't rush it and don't simply put your fears down to your past. Maybe you are being over vigilant but you can't know that yet. You are protecting yourself and for good reason.

If possible get some more counselling, if possible from someone experienced in Rape and abuse. I am a bit concerned that you have labelled yourself as "hypersensitive".

Yes in that second relationship it was Rape, you don't have to yell NO to make it rape.

I would suggest maybe the freedom programme could help you.

I haven't told him about the last two relationships on detail. I'm worried that he will think that it was my fault. I don't really have any reason for thinking that though. He probably wouldn't, but I just feel that anyone would think less of me if they knew. I don't want to come across as 'damaged'.

Mummy time, I have a lot of trouble with saying the second one was rape. It was a situation I never should have got into, went for platonic drinks with someone from work who was married, ended up back at his although i didn't want anything to happen (that was the stupid part). Because we went there in a taxi I didn't know exactly where I was, only the vague area of the city. I tried to persuade him out of doing anything sexual and said 'can we just talk instead?' But he said it was a bit late for that. I never outright said I don't want to have sex with you, and that was my mistake. I was recovering from flu at the time and spent the whole time coughing and shaking. Had panic attacks all day the next day. The really stupid thing is that I carried on seeing him afterwards, before realising how much he freaked me out and ended it. He still contacts me trying to get me to meet him even though I haven't replied to him in literally months. I blame myself because I should never have got in a taxi with him.

I get suspicious about current bf only when I'm not with him, and attribute all sorts of bad intentions to him. When we are together I realise he's not like that. In general he makes me feel very secure and appreciated, but my mind works overtime when I'm not with him, trying to work out how/when it's going to go wrong.

OP, that 2nd time was rape. It's a common misconception that all women makeit loud and clear they say no and are forced regardless. Rapists get their power from knowing that women are taught to be nice and not upset people, but moreover, from the fact that you will be so freaked out and scared and confused, etc., that you might feel incapable of fully verbalising a clear no. But believe me, no non-rapey man would EVEr, EVER say anything along the lines of it being 'a bit late for that'. Non-rapists understand that a woman can remove consent even during the actual sex act itself and are happy with that.

He was a very cunning, sly rapist, but he was a rapist who raped you. It's not even a grey area, it is very obvious what he did.

As for your new relationsip, I don't know. I do think exploring it with your counsellor is essential. One way of seeing if you are being oversensitive or not could be to tell him. If he blames you for any if it even the slightest bit then you know the red flags are real and you should bin it. No decent bloke would think you were to blame at all. Trust me.

I second mummytime's suggestion of individual counselling or the Freedom Program.

I suspect that dating exclusively has happened a bit earlier than your guts are ready for, iyswim. If this chap is as lovely as you say, he will not push formmore than you are comfortable with. Keep an open mind, for the moment.

I doubt that you are hypersensitive, though. I think you have learnt from experience to cautious and not rush into things. A very laudable thing. However, you do need to have your radar tweaked and learn to trust your own judgement again, which is what the Freedom Programme, in particular, will help you with.

I completely understand how you are feeling. My relationship previous to the one I'm in now involved very similar experiences to the ones you described in your OP.

I have been with my DP for a year and a half now, and he is absolutely lovely. For the first 6 months to a year, I was just waiting for him to mess up. I was on high alert for him to say something wrong, do something wrong, reveal some massive terrible thing from the past. I'd do it with friend's relationships too, I'd be constantly looking for red flags in their relationships.

I'm not sure if I have any fantastic advice, but I found that being aware that I wasn't being entirely logical helped me to not overreact.

I also thought to myself 'am I going to do/say anything horrible to him? - no' 'am I going to reveal some massive bombshell from the past? - no, because there isn't one!'. So why would I expect him to?

Ultimately, I just carried on getting to know him, and now I know for certain that he is not going to hurt me. He just wouldn't, its not in his nature.

I really don't know if any of this is making any sense. I just wanted to reply to say - I do know how you feel. Your reactions and feelings are entirely normal considering what you have been through.

Also, when you are on your own and worrying, remind yourself of something nice that he has done recently that shows you the real him, and shows you that he cares. Remind yourself that this is the real him, and you are basing that on fact. Remind yourself that your worries are not based on fact, they are just understandable concerns that you have because of the past.

I really don't know if that makes any sense, but I hope you're ok :)

Thanks lollypop that does help. I am constantly on the lookout for being controlled or disrespected. Obviously there are benefits to this, that (hopefully) i won't get stuck in a similar situation, but I will have to concentrate on things he has actually said and done, rather than what I think he could do. It's hard when you hear about people who have been married for a long time and only just found out who they are married to, it makes you realise you can never really know someone. It's tempting to just not bother with relationships anymore, but I don't want to do that.

Jus and mummytime, I looked at the freedom programme website and all the dates for the courses near me seem to be in the past. Maybe the website needs updating.

Oxfordbags, thanks for your pov. I know you are speaking sense, it is just hard for me to get past the fact I didn't actually say no, and can't help thinking maybe he didn't realise how much I didn't want to do it. The legal test is whether he 'reasonably believed' that I consented. I am a lawyer by training and its hard for me to look at it in more human terms. He later claimed he never said 'its a bit late now', and it makes me doubt my own memory.

It's great that you've learned from your previous abusive relationships and have taken steps to recognise the signs. Being hypersensitive to those signs and seeing problems where there are none is a part of this process. It's because your trust has been destroyed. Eventually, it will recover, but it takes time.

So you are left with two possibilities here - either you're not ready for this relationship or you're actually not being hypersensitive at all and you're picking up real signs that all is not well.

Either way, your best bet is to slow things down so that you can let things develop at a more comfortable pace if the former explanation applies, and give yourself more time and space to pick up the red flags if the latter.

FWIW, unless you think you are seriously damaged by your past relationships, I'd always say go with your instincts. Quite often we rationalise and override them to our peril. I don't like the fact that your new partner insisted on you introducing your friends to him before you were ready, for example. That is a red flag, not an imaginary one.

OP, if you discussed it with him after the fact and he had any reaction other than being absolutely horrified and disgusted with himself, then that means he KNOWS it was rape. Not saying no does not equal saying yes. Men know this.

It's easier to blame yourself than admit to having been raped, having someone force you to do something against your will, isn't it? I do know.

Dahlen, thanks. I really don't think the meeting friends thing actually was a red flag. He had kind of met them before but I think just wanted to get to know them better. He's a very sociable person. I just really resent the fact that I have considered ending this (probably perfectly healthy) relationship because of stuff that has happened before when logically I know they are different people and it is separate).

Oxfordbags you're right. At one point afterwards he even said 'you're not going to call the police and tell them I raped you, are you?' But he said it in a jokey way... I even carried on the relationship after that, maybe partly to prove to myself that actually it was all just normal and he hadn't meant to do what I thought he did. I even took the fact that he had sort of admitted it as a good sign - my ex just denied and denied and wouldn't admit anything, arguing black was white. But in that situation i knew i had said no, so it was easier to Categorise it as rape (although i didnt for ages) Eventually man 2 freaked me out so much I ended it, but he still texts me and tells me he's thinking about me and do I want to meet up (this is months and months on) despite me ignoring every text. I have checked and there doesn't seem to be a way to block his texts.