to not want bil to hold DD tightly and not let go?

[littlemisssarcastic]

I don't know how you would describe it, apart from to say every time he sees DD, he gets hold of her, puts his arms around her and holds onto her tightly, usually whilst saying something like 'You can't get out of this can you DD! Go on, try to get out of this then!'

I cannot leave them in the same room together, because it seems as soon as they are alone, it starts again. I'm sure DD can't be enjoying it??

I have asked him to put her down, said she doesn't like it, even physically taken DD from him, and tbh, there have been a few times when he has held on even as I am pulling DD out of his vice like grip.

Sometimes, he doesn't take any notice and just says 'She likes it.'

Perhaps it is the grimace on his face as he is holding her that makes me very uncomfortable about the whole thing.

I have tried speaking to my family about it, and don't go round bil's much anyway, but family's response is to say it doesn't happen when they are there, (oh yes it does) and then to be very sarcastic about it and say 'Well don't go to bil's house then?' meaning I would hardly ever see my sister.

I try to go when bil is at work, but since he works very irregular hours, and doesn't have regular days/hours he works, it is difficult to keep track.

[BumBiscuits]

Sorry my point is don't let your fucking idiot of a BIL near your DD.

[BigAudioDynamite]

Sorry lms I should have read the whole thread I see your family don't back you up You need to cut him off, and them until they 'get it'

[littlemisssarcastic]

I admire you for doing what you did BigAudio.

I have to go out now, but will be back later.

Thanks for all of the support. I wish everyone was as caring as you people on here.
However, I think if you are the type of person to freeze when confronted, then you probably do attract toxic people into your life. That's not an excuse, nor is it scientific but it makes sense to me.

[littlemisssarcastic]

And bumbiscuits That is actually very interesting!

[YellowAndGreenAndRedAndBlue]

That little angry face at the end of your last post gives me hope, i hope as you are describing a difficult mother, you can see it is not right and it is not about you.

Of course they tell you you can't cope, vulnerable, need help. They're terrified you'll be fine, and then who will they look down on?

It is hard to face up to, but I think inside you know they are in the wrong, not you.

[BigAudioDynamite]

lms confrontation is much easier if you know someone had your back, huh

I think if you ditch this shower, your confidence will climb and you will most likely attract some kind supportive worthy people into your life

[Morloth]

Keep your children away from all of these people.

To do otherwise is to be conplicit in their abuse.

What does he have to do to them before you put them first? He has thrown and punched your DS and is forcing himself on your DD?

[SmilingHappyBeaver]

What Bumbiscuits said.

TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS.

Keep your daughter away from him.

[Pagwatch]

LMS
I also thinkthat if the behaviour is accepted by everyone and as been going on forever it becomes normal. And suddenly forcing a change is incredibly difficult.

I changed things by just withdrawing when I felt they crossed a line - no explaining or arguing, nothing that gave them a chance to tell me patronising things like how I was being silly or over reacting. I would just say 'do you know, I'm off. I will see you another time' and leave.

[lovetomoan]

You can be 'the walkover' in your family if you like, but your DD doesn't have to be.
You must defend your DD. Your BIL is an asshole.

[zwischenzug]

It's one thing being a "walkover" yourself as you put it, but when it comes to your children that just isn't good enough.

If you allow your BIL to carry on with borderline paedophilic behaviour towards your daughter you are failing as a parent.

[littlemisssarcastic]

It is one of my biggest regrets that I didn't stand up for DS more. To the poster who said my anger gives them hope, I am not angry. I am furious!! At myself mainly for letting this happen.
As pagwatch said, it is very very difficult though.
Thank you for all of your support.

[YellowAndGreenAndRedAndBlue]

It is very difficult. But not impossibly difficult, you can do it.

I Hope you turn that anger where it belongs. Yes, you can say you 'let' it happen, but this is the family you grew up in, it's hard to work this stuff out from the inside. But it was not you who actually did it. Your BIL, DS, Mum are responsible for their actions.

I really hope you work your way away from this dynamic.

[countrykitten]

God he sounds creepy. Your poor daughter. You must stand up to him and damn well make scene for her sake. Forget the niceties, he is wrong and it is inappropriate in many ways.

[alcibiades]

Oh, littlemiss, I feel so very sad on your behalf - your family really have done a number on you, haven't they? All their supposed "kindness" and "support" really isn't that all. It isn't surprising that you ended up with an abusive ex, because your family has taught you to be a "put up and shut up" person. You did very well to make him your ex.

It will take time to disentangle yourself from your family but it can be done, with the right kind of support. I see from a quick glance of other posts you've made here that you are very supportive of others, so you've still managed to retain that kindly and gentle part of you, despite your family.

Maybe the next step for you is to ask MNHQ to move this thread into Relationships. There are many people there who understand toxic families/abusive relationships who could give you advice about how to extricate yourself and your DD from this situation. Some of them may not read AIBU.

In particular, I'm wondering about Women's Aid or similar organisations who can give you the proper kindness and support you deserve, and help you make that move (emotional/geographical) to a better life for you and your DD.

[littlemisssarcastic]

I can understand some of why I ended up in an abusive relationship now.
When I stood back and looked at how my ex treated me, the similarities to how my mother has treated me all these years are staggering!!!
In fact, my mother had actually betrayed me in exactly the same ways that xp later did, and mother carried out many of these betrayals before I even met xp.

My mother points out xp's faults but fails to see her own. Maybe we, as people, are programmed not to see our own faults though??

I will ask for this to be moved to relationships. Thanks again.

[Chottie]

Just to say, dig deep and stay strong. Your feelings as a mother are right, BiL's behaviour is out of order. Please do what you have to for your DD. Break the cycle x.

[HelenMumsnet]

Evening. The OP's asked us to move this thread to Relationships, so we're going to do that for her now.

[gimmecakeandcandy]

I am so sad for your dd that she has to put up with this, that - I'm sorry this will sound harsh - you let her go though this by allowing this behaviour from your bil.

[Lueji]

Maybe we, as people, are programmed not to see our own faults though??

Not all, but some, IYKWIM.

Throwing a child across a room would deserve a call to the police.

With DD, you need to look BIL in his eyes and tell him in a firm voice that he is not to touch your DD ever again. At any attempt to argue back, just say "ever again".


I wonder what you actually get from your family. The way they are toxic, it probably worsens your own problems.
Being away from them would probably make you more confident in yourself.